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We all know the Xbox Series X uses a custom AMD Zen2 chip with integrated graphics. On paper, this should be comparable to an AMD 5700G APU for gaming. But is that true in practice? Reports of the 5700G say it struggles to run AAA games and 4K is out of the question. Of course, OS and optimization is a major factor.
Will it be possible to get a 5700G running 4K 60FPS games like an Xbox?
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Series X GPU is way more powerful. Somewhere around a 6700XT.
5700G is still Vega graphics, not RDNA or RDNA2.
ID: hdihon0ID: hdiimatYes it has more CUs but the core clock speed is significantly lower to save power and thermals, which brings it back down closer to a 6700 XT imo. Though the Series X does have more memory bandwidth.
ID: hdir33bBoth the 6800/6700 are far superior. In theory the pc equivalent specs in terms of performance of this gen consoles are:
XSX: Ryzen 7 3700x + 2080super
PS5: Ryzen 7 3700x + 2080/2070 super
XSS: Ryzen 7 3700x + 5500xt (with RT)
ID: hdikz7zSince XSX has variable frequency, it cAn boost insanely high if you keep your room cool. In which case the XSX is actually nearly on par with a 6900XT!! it's amazing.
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The Xbox Series X has an APU with a large RDNA2 GPU and GDDR6 RAM, the 5700G, while having a better CPU, only has Vega 8 graphics paired with much slower DDR4 RAM. It's no contest.
ID: hdihc03That's what I wanted to know. Thanks.
I find it strange that there are no consumer APUs to compete with an Xbox. Seems like a missed opportunity for AMD to appeal to us PC gamers willing to spend like $800-1000 to get Xbox performance that can double as PC workstation.
But I guess Microsoft has some agreement with AMD to prevent distribution of something that would compete with the Xbox custom APU.
ID: hdihv2kIt just has to do with the fact that APUs are hard to engineer and selling a high performance APU isn't worth the cost for costumers. The 4700S is a good example of this, defective APUs of the consoles which have their iGPU disabled.
ID: hdijs30The console APU is a mid-grade GPU with CPU cores added on to it. The power budget is definitely in favor of the GPU aspects. With the 5700G the power budget primarily goes to the CPU cores and it is only a 65W part so not much power budget overhead for the GPU functions. I think the power budget on the Xbox Series X APU is in the ballpark of 270W.
So yes if AMD built a desktop APU with the power budget of a mid-grade GPU they could have more CUs and make it closer to the consoles that way. Though that doesn't seem to be the target market segment for chips like the 5700G.
ID: hdimck1The Steam Deck uses what is essentially a halved console Xbox Series S APU (half the CPU cores and almost half the GPU cores), but with lower core and memory speeds.
AMD could do something like the Xbox Series X for PC in an APU, but it would not only be expensive but probably doesn't make financial sense to sell them as one package, as much as I would like them to.
ID: hdioag8Motherboard would need some serious re-design to handle such a drastic increase in power consumption/cooling/space requirements etc… I appreciate it would be neat but not feasible unless it was a ‘Super APU’ only motherboard like the Thread ripper boards…
ID: hdixw52You can't do it. DDR4 it too slow, DDR5 is to slow DDR6 will even be to slow.
GDDR6/HBM is the only option to get anywhere near that in an APU. -
On paper, this should be comparable to an AMD 5700G APU for gaming
No. Not even on paper does it say this. Why would you think that?
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5700G - 8 gpu compute units based on Vega architecture (GCN), fp32 performance is around 1.8 TFLOPS
XSX - 52 compute units based on RDNA2 - 12.15TFLOPS (basically 10x higher FP32 performance, and in real world RDNA2 is way more "efficient" per TFLOP than vega)
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Series X can output 4K but it doesn’t render games at 4K. There are some exceptions, but the vast majority of XSX graphics are upscaled/super-sampled to 4K after the GPU renders them at lower resolutions.
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On paper, this should be comparable to an AMD 5700G APU for gaming.
No it shouldn't it has nowhere near the memory bandwith and about 1/5th of the compute units
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First of all, comparing a desktop APU to a video game console is silly. Yes, consoles “can” run games at 4K 60, they’re super optimised versions with different graphical settings that are designed to work with consoles. So it’s next to impossible to get a 100% accurate comparison. Secondly, console OS’s are also designed in this way, to work best with a console. With a PC, there are literally millions of parts combinations that need to be taken into account, while on a console there’s only a handful if hardware configurations. (Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox Series, etc.)
ID: hdiepq1In this case the "optimization" factor is irrelevant since the Series X is flatout multiple times more powerful hardware wise.
ID: hdif8jaActually that’s untrue. Sure, it’s multiple times more powerful then say an Xbox One, (Which has a glorified Laptop CPU mind you). But, as stated previously, optimising games for a specific number of hardware configurations like a console has does happen. Saying that they aren’t a huge factor is simply untrue. If you look at Digital Foundaries videos on PS5 and Xbox Series X frame rates, you see how drastically different the games look, feel, and run from their pc counterparts.
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5700G uses a Cezanne die, designed to run at 15W-45W in laptops, with a secondary purpose of serving as a desktop APU. iGPU on it is just the right size/capability to work at available system memory bandwidth (DDR4/LPDDR4X at 128bits is not much). Console APUs, on the other hand, are made to run at a power budget of ~150W, have powerful graphics, with corresponding bandwidth for the GPU. A very different chip: 5700G is a powerful CPU with a basic iGPU, console APUs are made to have powerful GPU with just enough CPU.
As for why AMD does not make such APUs with a powerful iGPU for retail- it would not fit with mainstream motherboards, and would need to be it's own 'console' (APU+MB+VRAM all in one). It would offer slower CPU performance (GDDR6), and would only compete vs AMD's own discrete CPUs and GPUs, while being more expensive to make.
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AMD is still bundling prehistoric Vega in their modern APUs.
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Not even close. The Custom APUs in the consoles are actually full-blown GPUs. The Series X GPU is basically the die of a defective Radeon RX 6800 or an RX 6800 with 8 disabled CUs while the PS5 is essentially the die of an RX 6700XT with 4 disabled/defective CUs
ID: hdijdcoXBOX and PS5 APUs has nothing to do with RX6000 defective dies
its a very similar (not same!) core GPU architecture that drives both designs, but they are completely seperate other than that
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/prg84z/xbox_series_x_vs_amd_5700g_apu/
In reality, the XBOX Serie X is closer to an RX 6800 (60 CUs activated out of 80) because it has 52 CUs activated out of 56 CUs physically present, while the RX 6700 XT has a fully activated Navi22 chip with its 40 CUs , therefore the XBOX Serie X is certainly much more powerful in 4K (and certainly much more than a PS5 which is the equivalent of an RX 6700 with its 36 CUs).