Civilian Flea Market Is a Good Idea

Frankly I think they should be buffing armou

I kind of disagree everything's too easy to come by right now solely because of the flea.

Time consuming crafts would however help the lower playtime players. It allow players with less playtime to bring in ok kits, while people who play all day are forced to also try and use less meta kits.

It limits availability for casuals, yes. But it limits availability for chads even more.

Casuals are not buying slicks/killa armo

On the other hand chads have so much money that they will happily pay that markup over and over. The result is that trader limits basically do nothing and their purchase volume on the flea is much, much higher than casuals.

So removing their access to that supply is narrowing the gap. A casual won't run m61, but now neither will the chads (except occasionally, due to trader limits)

Good point on the gear, but I wasn't thinking of that, nor Chads. I don't believe the Flea is the core issue, I'm convinced it's the min-max cheesing and Flea only makes it obvious.

the video is a bit long but I really recommend watching it, on 1.5x speed if you wanna. It's actually a really well thought out idea.
End of the day, "grinders" will be better equipped and pretty much always more skilled than people who can't grind. That's just how every game is, there's nothing you can do about it short of introducing more randomness in. He approaches the video as "this is my idea, twitch chat, tell me why it doesn't work" and then they refine it from there. Just watch it, might as well have a full picture of the idea rather than going off of summaries here

I completely disagree, what will fix this problem is eliminating min-max cheesing, secure containers, XP attribution, task completion parameters need and death penalties need to be overhauled.

I see your point. Then it would be a matter of deciding what ammo is available for maxed lvl'ed traders. Especially if the best ammo are bartered, then I think on the whole most players will be on equal footing, but players who spend more time on the game will have that advantage. I would argue this change would do more to shorten that divide than widen it.

If the best ammo is bartered, and barter items are sold on the civilian flea, once you hit max level traders doesn't this become close to the current flea market but with extra steps?

Personally, I think barter items shouldn't be sold on flea for this reason - it feels like a tedious extra step to check third party websites for barter value to get the best bang for your buck.

I disagree, kind of.

Right now, I am level 36. I don't play often, but this is the first wipe I've taken seriously. After many failed raids and rage quits, I am finally here after getting the game just over a year ago.

I can currently purchase a jailbreak M4 for about 300,000 roubles including the gun. This is with two or three items not available through traders at my level. I use M855A1 which is provided by Skier and Peacekeeper.

If I didn't have the flea market, I literally would not be able to create this meta gun in the first place. I love using it, because it enables me to have better PvP and feel more confident in my playstyle. I'm enjoying the game in a specific way because the flea market enables me to do that. That's especially true with other types of gear.

The issue here is that, as far as I can tell, you didn't actually provide a real problem that this would solve. It's just a "solution" for the sake of being different.

Realistically, it disables the ability for less grindy or new players to progress. I can do a scav run and sell a ton of crap for 300k-600k roubles, which includes many things that realistically should be included within this scope (such as military gear, like an MGT or military circuit board).

On top of this, there's a slew of weapons that can basically always be purchased for cheaper on the flea than they can from a trader. It just doesn't make sense to restrict that.

The issue that Jesse presented was an "Economy" issue, but realistically what he's trying to solve is a game balance issue.

The beauty of Tarkov is that it isn't inherently completely balanced. Each gun is better than another, each gear is better than another.

However, there's always one common denominator: Player skill. It doesn't matter if you have access to M61 and slicks, if you suck at the game, you'll lose.

I literally killed a level 40 something, and a 50 something yesterday with my M855A1, with a Korund and a Ulach. They were wearing Altyns and Slicks with M995 in HKs. A flea market restriction would have probably made all our gear worse in that situation and done nothing to balance it.

Hell, many guns on the Flea are much cheaper than you can get them from traders. I was saving 10-40k on many gun builds simply by using the flea market instead of traders.

What we need is not this. While Tarkov strives for realism, there's no way it can be fully realistic. If it was, then I wouldn't hear birds chirping in the bunkers of Reserve, nor someone walking on water from across the bunker through walls.

Honestly, if it was fully realistic, then we wouldn't have the flea market at all. How is it realistic that you can get same-minute shipping on items and work out of your hideout like you're Amazon?

This game is made to be hardcore, the casual player has no place in it. Of course a guy who can only play 7 hours a week will be massively weaker than a dude who can play 12 hours every day, that is a no brainer

It's a fallacy to assume that hardcore directly correlates to playtime or grinding.

Depends on how much they crank up the in-raid items spawns.

Crank up item spawns 500% and it still won’t matter for me. I never successful extract lmao.

One of the purposes of the Flea Market is to help normal players with limited playtime compete with the grinders

That has never been stated by any of the devs as the purpose for the flea market. Even so, this game shouldn’t be balanced around the bottom of the barrel just as it shouldn’t be balanced around the top players, streamers, etc.

There was a time when the flea didn’t exist and normal players made it just fine. There was more focus on unlocking your traders rather than never doing quests, as you can do nowadays.

Some of the people I've played with never used the better gear and ammo they found, using the flea market to turn one good kit into 3 or 4 adequate kits.

Not being able to buy/sell gear on the flea market would incentivise players to use what they find, as vendor prices are so much worse. You'd have lower level players actually USING ammo that could kill a chad. It would also prevent sweaty chads from entering every raid with 300 rounds of the best AP ammo for their gun.

It would also encourage people to use various different kinds of guns instead of making a meme gun every raid. Might as well use the good ammo you find.

I think this is a strong argument against Civilian Flea Market. To be honest, I really don't know how much top tier ammo would be concentrated among high leveled players relative to low level players. If it winds up that low leveled players are totally outmatched, then this plan would completely backfire.

I would hope the limited supply for high pen ammo and class 5 & 6 armor would make them used more sparingly and everyone would have to choose gun fights more carefully. New players could also get a leg up if decent ammo and armor is available at lower leveled traders, relative to this new system's meta.

I'd just like to try it for the sake of science!

I didn't even know that!

I think by limiting the supply for all players, they'll feel an impetus to use what they find (hopefully?). My concern about this idea is that loot spawns might need to spawn more ammo to support the weapons players find.

But you also need to think of the greater implications. For casual players, you aren't limiting their supply, you're cutting it off entirely.

No the purpose of the flea market was to break the hold Offline real money traders were having on the game to get rare items, keys etc

I think this change would really reward gameplay. If the only way to use a high tier gun is to risk going to hot-zones, it's now a huge reward if you extract with it. Since you can't sell the gun on the flea market, you're strongly encouraged to use it. If you want to use that gun, now all ammo of its caliber is valuable to you for the sake of using it. Different ammo types means different tactics. IMO, I like the scrappier playstyle

You're definitely right that tasks would need to change. Hopefully not too much?

Let’s have good vibes here. Streamers do well when a game community does well

It's an inherently competitive multiplayer game that challenges you to do the best you can. Not using the market does not change the competition and adding your own arbitrary challenges is not the same as beating one somebody else gave you.

For me its shifting gameplay as a whole and moving towards varied builds. But this is more out of experimentation. I really don't have any major qualms about how the game is now. BSG is going to make the game they want to make and I like it so far.