Rules to stop griefing?

1 : Anonymous2021/03/08 04:30 ID: m07sev

There's been a fair amount of discourse on Twitter, less so on this sub, about COOLER's final two games in the EU semifinals earlier. After determining that they were guaranteed to qualify for finals, they played Revenant, Octane, and Wraith, and W-keyed every team they saw. It didn't work out too well for them in Game #5, where they finished 20th with 0 kills, but in Game #6 they managed to finish 5th with 8 kills. Of those 8 kills, 6 were the players from nOcreativity and dead inside, both of whom were on the cusp of qualifying. I'm not sure about nOcreativity's reaction, but dead inside seemed pretty upset by what happened, which is reasonable given that they were in a good position to place well, or even win, that game.

Obviously this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and in all likelihood it won't be the last. In some cases, of course, "griefing" can be strategically advantageous. Knock out a close competitor and the next round will be that much easier for you. Fair enough. In other cases, though, like this one, a team will insist that they weren't going after specific team(s); they were just playing how they wanted to, because there was no good reason to play any different.

The go-to defense for the latter category is usually something like, "we didn't break any rules, or "don't hate the players, hate the game," or "blame the system, not us," and so on and so forth. The ever-present, but rarely-articulated, implication is that Respawn could somehow institute rules that would prevent such behavior. Personally, I don't see how that could possibly be the case. Would they ban certain team compositions? Bar teams from playing after they've qualified for the next round or event? Dig through VODs and do interviews with players to figure out the intent behind a team's int'ing?


N.B. To be clear, I have no interest in litigating whether or not COOLER, or any other team that's done something similar, is in the right. If you want to do that, go ahead. Personally, I'm curious if anyone can think of a way that they could be prevented, by official rules, from playing the way they did.

2 : Anonymous2021/03/08 05:09 ID: gq6iozk

I get what you're saying. Its what I was thinking, the whole competitive scene seems to be following some unwritten rules by the players themselves for example the gentlemens agreement of not contesting on landing.

I don't see how they could implement it, because the players already do it in game slightly. Like I heard some team say 'focus sentinels' mid game so its actively taking out a team. However, what you're saying is someone actively griefing 1 team to stop them qualifying but its just strategy at the end of the day. No player should be mad at that. If you do an asshole move like kick and say you won't land in a certain spot then land there then thats an asshole move

ID: gq6l4qe

It can't really be prevented and it shouldn't be. With this being a BR these things are going to happen. A top team could even pay off a team lower in the standings to land on another top team. That could happen and we wouldnt know unless it slipped out. Let teams play how they want or else stuff may happen under the table.

ID: gq6n1eu

in a specific round where a team wants a specific team to be eliminated early to pass them on points, I think its fair game to target that team. But griefing teams just to greif them and not playing to win is a moral gray area. But its not illegal and cannot be called against them. But its a shitty thing to do especially in a semi finals.

3 : Anonymous2021/03/08 05:36 ID: gq6ky9c

Is there such a thing as griefing in a competitive FPS BR game with money on the line? There is a point format and RNG, teams don't have to make it their goal to win every game; especially during the qualifying part of the tournament. Other teams know where you land, the skins you use, if you play for end zone or edge, etc. Don't want to be targeted? Don't scrim, don't stream, change skins every game, change dropping spot every game, etc. Other teams will use every bit of information to screw you no matter who you are.

At the end of the day "not griefing" is a gentlemens agreement. There is no reason to have a rule and such rule would be so easy to break without consequences. The only risk of "griefing" is getting blasted on twitter by the team who had dreams and hopes of reaching the next round. Get that KP or be the KP.

4 : Anonymous2021/03/08 05:55 ID: gq6me92

Dont they get ALGS points and dont the top teams get some points to help them in the finals?

If you want to grief someone it's only griefing if it doesnt work. But then you feed them KP or you sacrifice your own placement. That's why league rules have to be set up such that generally speaking it's in your best interest to do the best you can every game.

Fundamentally that's the problem with the game and the league. There are many scenarios where players dont have any incentive to do better. If there were points or positions that always carried over at every level then everyone would be motivated to do the best they can every game.

Some things that could help this.

Have every position in previous games matter. IE instead of 0 points for 0-16 every place is worth points, this encourages people to fight and play for every position. not have batched positions that are all worth the same placement points.

Award bigger spreads of points for qualification during the finals and perhaps at every level. So instead of only the top 10 teams getting points more teams have points. This encourages teams to stay together and not do shit like dropped where they just ranked is harder where they just jerk around get qualified then do shit all the rest of the time.

The whole point system probably needs to be given more granularity. Meaning your points each game come out to around 100 instead of 10. And things like KP might be worth 10 points each. Then they can do things like award 1 point for 20th place and maybe 100 points for 1st.

And come finals time even teams with only a few points have a slight advantage.

5 : Anonymous2021/03/08 05:49 ID: gq6lxxc

Good luck trying to prove intention. You'd need an unbiased jury with months of time to deliberate and you still might not be able to. The only thing I can see is having teams that already qualified no longer play out the rest of the series. But that makes later matches easier, so you'd have to somehow compensate each team that qualifies with a commensurate reward (staggered ALGS points bonuses for soonest-latest qualifications?). At this point you should realize the pointlessness of this all. All strategies for all purposes, braindead or brilliant, mal-intent or noble, are valid. There's no way to reason around it, as no matter how complicated you think things are now there's a million more ways it could be further complicated than be simplified

ID: gq6r652

In sports refs don't have to prove anything, they are judges, once the whip out the red card its done

6 : Anonymous2021/03/08 06:59 ID: gq6r16r

theres no way to stop it, it just sucks when teams decide they dont care and stop trying to win, and start "trolling". i get it doesnt impact them, but it impacts the viewer, and viewers are the only reason these tournaments happen and there is any prize money to be won

imo it shows the necessity of a match point system in big tournaments, so its never decided until its over, and nobody "trolls" because they are so far ahead/behind that the result wont matter


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