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In a raid with 2 of my buddies last night, down in D2 power room on reserve.
We hear 3 Thicc chungi stomping down towards us. "Ooo 3 PMC's coming in. Play this right and this could be an amazing 3v3."
One of my trio was fairly new. I saw him holding a corner where he's easily visible. "Don't hold that corner, you're going to die before you have time to react if someone pushes that angle."
"I got this," he said. First enemy sends the corner he's holding, I see my buddy die immediately before being able to fire a shot. "Fuck this goddamn game."
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The plural of chungus is chungi
ID: hmta1r9ID: hmtmog0Chungi, thanks I love it
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One of my favorite things is seeing someone run nose first into a ‘fact of life’.
One of my second favorite things is seeing them learn absolutely nothing from it.
ID: hmt3pqlThe people with hundreds of hours in this game that still repeek the same angle multiple times are a good example.
ID: hmt76p7Doesn't change no matter what game you play though.
STOP PUSHING B TUNNELS AS CT, YOU'VE DIED EVERYTIME~
ID: hmt3xpwIndeed.
ID: hmto89dTo be fair, Tarkov is one of the only games around where re-peeking an angle is actually beneficial and often the correct play. Since you can't hold corners in Tarkov like you can in every other shooter due to netcode / desync, re-peeking an angle while also prefiring is pretty much a guaranteed kill on the guy you're re-peeking on.
ID: hmub3qjthat's fine as a mixup if you know what you're doing tho
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The problem is, holding an angle should work, but you put yourself in a server netcode disadvantage if you do that.
ID: hmthwb5I think the right answer is to hide behind the corner, and lean peek when you know they’re in sight so you get the netcode advantage (if you’re not able to push).
ID: hmtirg9It's not, the right answer is to push them aggressively.
It shouldn't be the right answer, but it is.
The reason is simply the shit netcode.
Person 1 is sitting still, his position isn't moving, so there can't be a delay on his actions in the next server tick because the information hasn't changed.
However, person 2 is pushing person 1. So for person 1 to see this, person 2 has to cross the corner, that information has to be sent to the server, processed, and then sent to person 1's client before person 1 even sees person 2 on their screen at all.
However, since person 1 isn't moving, person 2 will see person 1 immediately upon crossing the corner.
So, sitting still at all means you are, at minimum, 1 tick behind in the fight. So if the tickrate is down to...15, which would probably be pretty high for this game to be honest, would leave you roughly 600 ms behind in the fight at minimum. Double that if you're 2 ticks behind.
6/10s of a second is a huge delay in a moment by moment fight, 6/10s of a second is enough for someone to peak a corner, headshot you, and unpeek - kill you - and you never saw them on your screen, at all, once.
edit: I think this will be fixed a lot with inertia, because right now it doesn't seem the game has any predictive movement. Most games have predictive movement to pretty accurately show you the guy crossing the corner at the moment he would, even though his client hasn't confirmed that exact action yet to the server. Between a well functioning server and decent network prediction, it's like everything's 100% real time.
Well, without inertia, we're all weightless floating people basically, so we can ADADADAD spam very quickly and there's no way for the server to predict that.
If, after inertia, the system can say "Actor 1 is moving at X m/s with a weight of Ykg, meaning his next action in the very next tick will most likely be Z" and can show that prediction to the user, and be 99% right 99% of the time, and the game will feel much, much smoother with that in place.
ID: hmtofhkClose, the better play is to not hold the angle, but instead push out around the corner as they're pushing out towards you, so you swing netcode issues into your favor and benefit from the peekers advantage. Especially if you do so while prefiring.
Or go full aggressive and hard push them to again benefit from netcode issues.
ID: hmubnurholding corners only works if you're in an off-angle, or your enemy is convinced they are alone
the element of surprise negates any peeker's advantage they might have
people are prefiring if they hear you, or at least checking corners if they're not sure
ID: hmufffpholding corners only works if you're in an off-angle, or your enemy is convinced they are alone
That's incorrect.
the element of surprise negates any peeker's advantage they might have
Can't surprise someone looking straight at the place you're entering from if they're holding an angle, and by default, expecting someone.
However, someone entering that room has to guess the exact location of the camper and attempt to instantly fire at them to be on even ground.
So no, the person camping the room should have the advantage if the person doesn't know they're in there.
If the person does know they're in there, they can toss a grenade in and completely flip flop that situation by forcing the camping player to move into them, or die to a grenade.
So, just by very nature of what's happening, if you enter a room and there's a person in there who could be sitting 1 of 2 places, you have a 50% chance to guess that correctly, while they have a 100% chance of aiming at you when you enter the door.
Pretty sure there's a currently unused context menu option for "breach and flash" or whatever, which should give a single button option to tell your PMC to open the door a little, frag it, and close it.
ID: hmuf8ntLmao this whole game’s meta is defined by shit netcode isn’t it
ID: hmugdnbIt's defined by shit netcode and abusing the unrealistic, unimplemented parts of the otherwise restrictive, "realistic" system.
ADAD spam, hard rushing to abuse netcode, jumping around and being able to aim instantly when landing while wearing 30kg of gear.
ID: hmu7cuuThis , your way more likely to die because of some jumpy boi with an sj6 sticking out his neck cause they can see you first doing nothing for half a second
ID: hmutcgyYeah exactly, all online multiplayer FPS games have issues(well some call it balance) with "peeker's advantage" as due to latency the peeker will see the opponent frames before the holder gets the visible information. The issue can however be reduced with higher framerate monitors.
ID: hmu964pYeah this is the reason I’ve taken a break. Has it gotten better since the end of last wipe at least? Hoping to get back into when the next wipe hits
ID: hmua87xIt's gotten better since the Unity 2019 update and in general over the last few months. They said there was no performance improvements with Unity 2019 but I think the behind-the-scenes improvements to the engine helped a lot.
First time I played on Unity 2019, my client performance was literally so much better, I thought my sensitivity had been reset and turned up my turn speed had increased so much just because my frames were higher.
However, Unity 2019 gives them a LOT of avenues to improve the networking code and make everything work a lot better, so I'm actually really optimistic about their ability to improve the technical aspects of this game.
Last wipe, 9/10 fights it felt like my bullets simply didn't work. Now, if I get a chance to fire it's usually a fair feeling fight and if I hit them, my bullets seem to work a vast majority of the time.
Still a lot of "You saw a tip of an elbow peek a corner and you died" events, but, improvement is happening.
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To be smart, play dumb is my motto. When that doesn’t work out I do the opposite. I like the game enough to accept that lots of players are prob getting a good laugh at my expense. Free loot for everybody!
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Isn't it amazing how you have to adapt your playstyle due to how shit the desync is? Fucking hell what a joke.
ID: hmudmaaCSGO doesn't have desync yet peeker's advantage is the same deal.
Netcode like that isn't inherently desync.
ID: hmuet4uBullshit. Have you seen CSGO pro gameplay and how well they're able to hold corners?
ID: hmuexftCsgo would be unplayable without it. You would never be able to push anything.
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Never peak left handed either.
ID: hmtv0idI've seen a few people mention left handed corners, what's the deal with them? Not that I hold corners much one way or the other, but still what's that about?
edit: Question has been answered, thank you!
ID: hmtwyipyour weapon is on your right side. When you peek to the right you can expose minimal percentage of your body to be able to shoot. When you peek to the left you need to expose half or even more of your body to be able to shoot
ID: hmtxre4All characters in Tarkov are right handed so the barrel isn't totally centred on the character model, it's a bit to the right. Also the way they hold the guns means more of your character model is left of the barrel, from your POV.
So when you peak a left hand corner you expose more of yourself than if you were to make the same peak on a right hand corner. It's actually a pretty common occurance in a lot of games.
In Hunt showdown it's actually the opposite for some reason, the character model is way off when peaking right hand corners.
ID: hmtxflnFrom what I understand, holding left corners is bad because characters hold their gun on the right shoulder, and your point of view is also closer to the right shoulder. So if you are holding a left handed corner, your enemy will see your left shoulde
before they enter your view or your gun's barrel line, giving them a large advantage.ID: hmu4c8pYou see the game through your characters right eye. Someone pushing to the left has to expose their entire head before the enemy would become visible.
Its exceedingly dumb and the camera view should be moved to the middle of the head.
ID: hmuc9tzHopefully we get swapping weapon hands keybinding at some point!
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Its almost like holding an Angle SHOULD work but doesn't due to how Tarkov works atm
ID: hmu07j5This guys right and I think its a major reason why I dont play alot lately. When you hear someone your first thought should always be "oh shit be quite" not "lets fucking run and kill that dude and give away the advantage of surprise." This just feels bad in every way. Its unintunitive because of its not how litterally any other shooter game you've ever played before works. And it makes no sense because if your at the high ready holding a corner and someone crosses it theres no way they could ready their weapon and fire before you simply pulled the trigger.
ID: hmtqqw9[deleted]
ID: hmtxbayso....what your telling me is holding an angle SHOULD work but it doesn't due to how Tarkov works atm.....
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Sounds about right. So many players who dont understand pvp will hold a left hand peek or something then they'll die before they can even see the other player. Then they say the game is broken and never play it again.
ID: hmt2208I mean the game is broken, severely broken with network performance. Worst peekers advantage of any game I've ever played.
But if you want to play it now, you need to learn to work around it.
ID: hmtoyobSo true - high level pvp Tarkov meta is LITERALLY built around how to best abuse the poor netcode, and misaligned hitboxes. Ideally high level PVP would be built around mechanical skill and map knowledge but....
ID: hmt7h6vI agree with you. What I should've said is that they tend to make those mistakes and then instead of adjusting they just complain and/or quit.
ID: hmt2am8I just want an option to change hands by a button click. Too bad this will require a lot of new animations and never will be done.
ID: hmt3gkwIt's already been confirmed it's coming.
ID: hmtgkxnno, they say CHEAAAATER!
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There is a critical range at which holding corners becomes viable.
But yeah... don't do it during CQB
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What is holding a corner? Can someone please explain? Sorry, I am not very good at fps to know this lingo.
ID: hmuba7lBeing behind cover and peeking/leaning so only some of your character is visible.
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You can hold a corner. But there is a few ways to lower your profile so you don't get hit as easily. It also requires you to be focused and fire fast enough so they don't have time to ads you out. But as others have said, if you re-peak that corner after alerting them once then you're probably dead if the other person is adept.
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You are all wrong, just use a VOG and you win
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"I got this" help I am in this post and I do not like it
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This may all change when they introduce Inertia to the movement of the PMC's. But who knows... I guess we shall see.
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Morons will be morons.
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"Fuck this goddamn game" from an ignorant bad and new player in the friends group sums up Tarkov 100%
Some of my buds just simply can't hang in this game. I regularly encourage them to go back to CoD where they came from =)
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You expect cod to be what it is. Tarkov on the other hand, looks like a slow, tactical, realistic game and yet it isnt at all. That ignorant bad and new player might just be a dissappointed person. Also if they come from cod, they are probably better at fps games...
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i think this is also what pushes people away from the game. they think they won't be able to play like it's CoD which is a shame because tarkov is the best when it's played like CoD
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I mean to be fair, FUCK THIS GAME" is a common response most times I die, but I'm not gunna pretend like it wasn't my fault lmao
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[deleted]
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But OP is clearly saying that his teammates lack of skill is what got him killed. The title of the post is literally saying that holding a angle is a pvp mistake...
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He got killed because he was stubborn and didn't listen, not because he wasn't "skilled" enough to fight the angle. Nobody's skilled or fast enough to fight angles with an equally skilled player with the desync in this game.
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network is objectively trash though
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If you think the peeker having time to line up a headshot and fire, only 5-6 frames after he renders on the holders screen is anything OTHER than a broken game, I don't know what to tell you.
My buddy recorded what happened, I watched it. It's was less than like 50ms between the peeker begining to render, and him being dead. No human being has fast enough reflexes to be able to fight that.
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Screen recording through OBS and shadow play are amazing at showing how bad the peelers advantage is when you can compared recordings. Same when you can see two twitch streamers kill each other, and you see how much longer the other guys sees you on the screen while the netcode tried to catch up
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He got what he deserved for extract camping.
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Down in D2 POWER ROOM on Reserve
Read that again.
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this should change in the next few weeks.
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Peekers advantage won’t be solved by net code fixes. Every shooter has problems with this just because of limits in the current network infrastructure of the internet. It will probably be a few years before we even have the tech to have server refresh rates high enough to eliminate the advantage and probably 5-6 before it’s widely utilized
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i meant inertia, not net code fixes. inertia is partly to help combat this problem for that exact reason. I guess it's more appropriate to say that we will see whether or not it will fix the problem.
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The full second+ peakers advantage yes. I love dying when i see the elbow of my enemy
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I changed it. Blessed be the chungi