Is there zero incentive to stay late into raids? And how could they make people stay longer?

1 : Anonymous2021/12/08 11:54 ID: rbpp8u

I know for a fact im the odd one out for staying late into raids because every single random I play with in a LFG discord is constantly surprised when I stay in raids for longer than 20 minutes.

It might be because of my play-style since I like to search every nook and cranny but Ive noticed that nearly every single PMC is leaving the match in under 15 minutes.

Like, why the rush? Do u need to use the bathroom? Why is the ONLY spots you pple check the hot zones and then after that you just mystically disappear into the abyss, leaving the map an empty husk?

And what would it take for you to want to stay in raids longer? Im genuinely curious about this, what specifically would keep you in the raid for an extended period of time?

2 : Anonymous2021/12/08 13:30 ID: hnpr0zn

Another reason is that the skill system in its current form promotes running more shorter raids due to diminishing returns

ID: hnqbnc9

Common fucking sense in every sense of it makes short raids worth it. You get in more raids, more loot, more money. Why would anyone want to stay in a dangerous combat zone for any longer than necessary? And since this is a video game, people will continue sprinting everywhere because they know it's usually safe to.

Only way to incentivize long raids is timed events that reward you a lot.

ID: hnql3fv

I stay in Reserve until the last minute, but only because I enjoy terrorizing player scavs with a DVL and 993 from Dome.

ID: hnqeffd

Couldn't they give an xp bonus for being in there for like 10 min, then a bigger one at 20 minutes, and a huge one for the last 10 minutes of the raid or something like that

ID: hnraopr

This is actually a sick idea! Helicopter crashes or airdrops, or scav wars or something to incentivize staying to the end.

ID: hnqkvks

There are literally infinite ways to make people stay in raid longer.

3 : Anonymous2021/12/08 12:06 ID: hnpiiy1

They might want to get out before the player scavs start roaming around, or before the next wave of AI spawns. At the end of the raid when (theoretically) all the good loot has been picked up and not many PMC (if any) are left, it's a bigger risk to stay in the raid than to extract and go in again.

People who need scav kills may stay.

You could keep people in longer by appealing to their greed, perhaps spawning in bosses later, or make late-raid scavs have better loot.

ID: hnpwmo4

^ This right here. Any PMCs that are in the raid late are usually newer players taking advantage of fewer PMCs on the map or slow players that enjoy stealth.

The longer you are in raid, the riskier it gets. Scav players arriving can be dangerous especially if they work together to swarm PMCs, and slow PMCs are hiding waiting to kill whatever is left.

I'm absolutely on board with bosses spawning in later and late-raid scavs having better loot. Would make scav karma even more interesting, too.

ID: hnr7mxe

I'd like to see some bonus points if you are the last PMC to extract.

ID: hnqi2qg

They could have dynamic loot events like raiders spawning at 1 side of the map mid game with backpacks full of loot. They move through the map trying to get to an extraction point.

ID: hnq417r

You could even lock down certain extracts for the first 15mins, maybe? Or have even more extracts be multi-step processes, like Reserve's hermatic door, or the locked room on Interchange.

I love waiting for the train on Reserve. It was a sad day for me when they added D2, as suddenly the map became too easy to extract from. Rats run in, gobble up loot and leave before you even see them. I'm also a player who likes to stay late, hunting second-wave scavs, especially early wipe when they come in wearing armoured rigs and carrying pilgrims.

ID: hnpiyj6

That last part was definitely what I was thinking, with late game scavs spawning in larger, harder groups but having much better loot on them

Def wld argue against things like raider guns and the such since they are still just Scavs, but treasure items like statues, keys, keycards, components ect. Would be a solid reason to stay late in raid and even to team up, even if temporarily, with other PMCs to help take them down.

Also are player scavs really that big of an issue for people? I rarely encounter them and when I do I rarely have an issue dispatching them...

ID: hnpwdy0

I know when I play reserv I try to get out before the player scavs get in. They're too wild and they have nothing to lose lol. And as soon as they hear gun fire they come creeping like little vultures. They're wreckless and I usually get bombarded if I stay in there too long.

ID: hnq0671

“Also are player scavs really that big of an issue for people? I rarely encounter them and when I do I rarely have an issue dispatching them...”

Tell me you don’t play Reserve without telling me you don’t play Reserve lmao. Seriously though, if you played on a Player Scav heavy map, you too would be scared of those Godless bastards. Nothing to lose, and there’s always one more coming for those legs... not enough Altyn or M995 on this planet to hold back that horde. I run every time lol

ID: hnpzy40

Please don't ever get them tthe idea of late boss spawns, the kill reshala quest has fucked my month up badly enough thank you.

ID: hnq0tm8

If it's only a chance to spawn later if they didn't already spawn, it would make people stick around longer, somewhere safe, "just in case" and technically increase spawns. 😀

4 : Anonymous2021/12/08 12:52 ID: hnpmyf0

a loot room on lighthouse that opens late in raid would be cool

ID: hnqco91

Rust style air drops that have a chance of spawning at the halfway point of a raid would be sick

5 : Anonymous2021/12/08 13:34 ID: hnprgps

I like long raids, but there's no denying that the core gameplay massively discourages it:

Player scavs spawn and there's close to zero incentive to deal with them. Weight becomes an issue. Armo/ammo situation deteriorates. Diminishing returns on skills means little is gained late in the raid. FiR means more risk. Hydration/Energy, though this is usually easy to deal with. Loot is largely gone within 15 minutes.

I'd like to see:

A limit on player scav spawns, so killing one at least buys you a quieter map instead of another immediately spawning in to replace them. Ability to drop off a bag of loot (planned I believe). Diminishing returns should either be over real-time rather than per-raid, so a long raid gives just as many points as a few short ones in the same time. Alternatively, don't diminish returns below say 40%, so longer raid players can still make at least some progress. Significantly more high value loot spawns but with lower rates, to reward players who pick through the whole map. Ideally as many of these would be behind locked doors as possible since we're looking to reward PMC's here, not encourage more player scavs. Maybe FiR status could be retained if you die in the last 10 minutes of a raid? It would be inefficient to abuse this but gives players an extra option. Better chance of replenishing armo. This is a difficult one but if armor plates are introduced and the economy reaches a point where the meta ammo isn't practically a requirement, this could work.
ID: hnpyifs

I generally agree with most of the points listed as being the primary reasons people leave quickly. There is another however that I think was missed:

1)Boss Scavs spawn off start, so players looking to farm them know to check their spawns as quickly as possible to try for them, and if they aren't on the map (which is more often then not), they know to leave to try again on another map.

As to the changes you are proposing, they are also largely good to address some of the issues. I do have some things to ask/point out in regards to your proposed changes :

Significantly more high value loot spawns but with lower rates, to reward players who pick through the whole map. Ideally as many of these would be behind locked doors as possible since we're looking to reward PMC's here, not encourage more player scavs.

While this would help incentive looting a wider area, I'm not sure if it would accomplish exactly what you are envisioning. Take Interchange for example. Rather than giving people an opportunity to loot through the entire map, they will probably just stick with whatever stores are closer to their spawn to minimize combat, then leave. So if you spawn to the north, you loot Power and Idea & Goshen, then proceed to Emercom. Why bother with Tech & Ultra when other spawns are closer, and other players spawned closer to those loot spawns?

Maybe FiR status could be retained if you die in the last 10 minutes of a raid? It would be inefficient to abuse this but gives players an extra option.

I think this is a decent start, but would also establish an odd deadzone in the middle of the raid time. As the primary reason for FIR is to deter people suicide rushing & giving each other quest items, I'd actually propose something slightly different : Turning FIR on for everything past 15-20 minutes. At this point your rushers are gone, and this gives a tangible benefit for sticking around in Raid, as well as not trying to nerf the people hunting for Scav bosses for quests.

ID: hnqd412

Love your suggestions. One that I would like:

Utilize exfils like SR11 more. Design new maps such that they require players to zig zag through the map. Exifls like Customs' power to fort exfil or Interchange's Safe Room 11 require map movement before an exfil. Conversely, Shoreline doesn't have one so players rush resort then reset at Rock Passage. Those players never run across Heps Station, Cottage, Pier, Weather Station, etc. and can get out of raid quickly. Additionally, turning on power gives map clues for player movement, which is a great thing.

6 : Anonymous2021/12/08 12:38 ID: hnpljrn

If there was a way to send my loot back to my stash I would stay more to kill more people

ID: hnptysx

That would be an interesting mechanic. Like a single or maybe 2 NPCs on each map that can take your loot back to your stash. It would be really high risk though.

ID: hnpu8l9

I mean realistically noone that finishes a fight and has a backpack full of loot will stay in raid and look for more fights. They will try to extract with the profit they made. If there was a paid or maybe barter service that extracted a portion of the loot you have on you then more people would stay in raid longer

ID: hnpy1uo

It shouldn't be an unlimited or even large container to take your stuff out for you. It should be something along the size of the game container or epsilon maybe and maybe add some lore to it about smuggling firearms. Make it so it it really only going to work for you to get out quest items and/or barter items and ammo and meds such.

If they do something like this, it could literally be your container.

Like if you want to get something out of raid using this way, you load up your container (alpha, beta, epsilon, gamma, kappa) with whatever it is you want to keep and send it out. Which means it's gone for the rest of that raid.

You get to stay in raid but now you don't have a gamma to hide stuff in ur bunghole.

ID: hnpy909

Thats an interesting idea as well. However why not have both. Have the choice for either that or paying a big fee for example 75k for the smuggler to take your loott out of the raid

7 : Anonymous2021/12/08 13:31 ID: hnpr44x

Depends on the map. But if I get out early it's usually for one of 2 reasons. Quest item or rare item and I want to get out with it. Other than that I tend to linger in my raids to kill as many scavs as I can. It could be coincidence but I've noticed some scavs I kill near the end of raids have better ammo in their weapons 855a1, 336 AP etc so I just wander around killing scavs instead of sprinting to exit.

8 : Anonymous2021/12/08 14:19 ID: hnpwus3

It's virtually pointless to stay for longer. You lose meds, ammo, food and whatever other resources you've brought in.

You're full with loot, and thus meet diminishing return on looting, as you need to drop things to make room for more, and the high value spots are already looted and empty. You also run the risk of running into other people and die with your stuff, and in general, gain less and less exp the longer you stay.

I mainly stay late when I have quests to complete.

9 : Anonymous2021/12/08 12:24 ID: hnpk4yt

Like, why the rush?

Because after 20 minutes theres not much left to do when majority of players have already died.

Why is the ONLY spots you pple check the hot zones

Because that's where I'll be finding people.

And what would it take for you to want to stay in raids longer?

Give me a purpose to survive.

10 : Anonymous2021/12/08 15:57 ID: hnqaja7

My friend who runs raids as fast as possible basically said the more fresh raids you get into the more of a chance at getting to the high tier loot spots and getting out. I think most people are of the mindset "I need a LEDX or GPU or this raid is a bust"

I see what he means but I cant tell you how many times I've been in a raid and found rooms/building never hit and make a fortune. Shit I cant tell yoy howany times I've gone to resort late and found it totally unlooted and have the entire resort to myself to loot freely

11 : Anonymous2021/12/08 12:39 ID: hnpll48

The problem is it's too easy to traverse around the maps currently with little opposition outside of other players. More scavs need to be placed in more contested spots eg. tech stores, dorms, etc. Should be very hard to get through without letting people know you're there.

ID: hnq6do6

Kinda makes me think of the Raid series as the BEARs were fighting in the corridors. That makes my heart flutter thinking about it

ID: hnqez5o

Before the game blew up in popularity, there were shitloads of scavs on every map. As the game has gotten more popular, more scavs have been removed to help stabilize the shitty servers the game runs on.

12 : Anonymous2021/12/08 14:50 ID: hnq0z5l

Because of the vast amount of time spent in between raids. No one's rushing out of the map, but when your rushing several hotspots right off the rip, and have killed several pmcs, why stay in raid anymore?got kills ✅ got loot ✅ still alive? ✅ Then let's reset so we can offload and jump right into another. The more time you spend on a raid, the higher your chances are of getting killed by scavs. If I'm gonna die, I want it to be a pmc, not some lowly scavs with a lucky shot. It's pretty common in folks who have several thousand hours in this game since we know the routes, locations, and high traffic areas. When me and my squad play customs, we're in and out in 15 minutes tops and usually several pmc kills or boss kills.

13 : Anonymous2021/12/08 13:56 ID: hnpu0sd

I’m there for loot and murder, I rush high loot spawns to get valuables to cover the cost of my loot then run around a bit doing small patches of looting along the way while I look for people to murder, if I find no one in 20 minutes then I have more then enough usually to cover my gear and if I have found someone in under 20 min my backpack is filled with their gear and I can’t loot anything else so I’m on my way to extract

14 : Anonymous2021/12/08 16:51 ID: hnqiojn

More maps need events similar to the train on reserve. I say similar because they shouldn’t happen 100% of the time or all be for the purpose of extracting.

15 : Anonymous2021/12/08 20:10 ID: hnre0l3

It might be because of my play-style since I like to search every nook and cranny but Ive noticed that nearly every single PMC is leaving the match in under 15 minutes.

Like, why the rush? Do u need to use the bathroom? Why is the ONLY spots you pple check the hot zones and then after that you just mystically disappear into the abyss, leaving the map an empty husk?

This started when BSG made it so if you die you lose FIR on things in your container so you can't hand in quest rewards or sell things on the flea if you die. People don't want to risk losing quest rewards or money so they just leave the raid and hop into a next one.

Also before those changes you could find a LEDX or a GPU and still go hunt down PVP and even if you die you'd at worst break even

16 : Anonymous2021/12/08 14:34 ID: hnpyq89

The incentive is already there...there is simply too much loot on any single map for anyone to thoroughly loot...especially early wipe.

People that rush to hotspots play the game differently...quick in & out..they are also way more likely to die to what they refer to as 'campers'...who aren't really..they are just folks who heard this dude stomping like a mad-lad to the hotspot locations.

Things will change with Intertia...I hope...they won't be able to lift their guns to fire quickly anymore..or do quick peeks..they will have to slow down their game or suffer the consequences (these players are the ones who are likely to be the loudest when wipe & intertia comes..)

Just you do you...and are not watch out. 😉

ID: hnq77y0

This is just simply incorrect, by 15 mins in the map, player scavs have already spawned and are looting the low conflict areas

17 : Anonymous2021/12/08 13:15 ID: hnppddh

I feel like a good way to encourage people staying in the maps longer would be like late game events, say 20 mins into a raid an airdrop happens or patrols of un / military come into the map.

18 : Anonymous2021/12/08 12:32 ID: hnpkwdm

Loot refreshes and late spawning loot. That's how you get people to stay later. Imagine KNOWING a high value loot room will respawn in resort. How many people would camp that shit and try to fight off anyone coming in.

19 : Anonymous2021/12/08 12:13 ID: hnpj6mj

I get out because the PvP is basically done and high value items are gone. I also have no reason to be in a raid longer unless I specifically had a quest like kill 25 scavs on interchange. I'd probably uninstall if I spent 40 minutes in a raid only to get one tapped by a player scav. I rather reset.

ID: hnpzox9

That kedr to the eyeballs or the 7mm buck lmao. There is nothing more annoying in this game than spending 35 minutes in a raid to get RNG'd out of existence by a random player scav just kamikaze'ing into you lmao.

Cuz not only did you lose that 35+ minutes but now you're gunna spend another 10-15+ minutes getting into the next raid... So you're looking at almost an hour.... And you have gained NOTHING in that hour... Except a migraine lmao.

20 : Anonymous2021/12/08 16:24 ID: hnqek45

I'm not getting out of raid until I have every fucking square in my rig and backpack full of loot. Sometimes it takes 15 minutes, sometimes it takes 45 minutes.

Doesn't matter if I've killed 3 players and weigh 60 kilo's, if I have free slots I'm not done looting. I'm getting out THICC or not at all.

21 : Anonymous2021/12/08 14:00 ID: hnpugqh

Bosses and events that happen in the map at different intervals of time. Bonus loot for anyone who stays around long enough.

22 : Anonymous2021/12/08 14:07 ID: hnpvdj4

Its the gameplay loop. The whole point is to get loot so if you get your bags fill fast you want to get out. Its fun, but a way to get players to stay longer is simply to reduce the amount of loot in areas so you have to move around the whole map instead of to one point. Not to mention player scavs are a real threat so you definitely wanna get out before then. Chadzmcgee 2.0 doesnt care that he has a toz, if he headshots you with that slug youre still in trouble.

Another thought would be to have scav bosses be triggered by certain events so that you would have to take time to farm them each round. Maybe you have to breach security of a compound or something, or damage something important to the boss to make him personally try to come deal with you.

As i keep saying. The economy in this game is way too light. Its way too easy to get value thus ruining the midgame experience and hardcore struggle. You are either fighting like a scav or fighting like a COD loadout. Its sad.

23 : Anonymous2021/12/08 14:37 ID: hnpz731

I stay in raids late. Like 3-5 minutes left late.

24 : Anonymous2021/12/08 15:13 ID: hnq42qo

There is some reward to staying later. Player scavs are excellent looters, and spawn in with labs cards and other valuables. Killing just 1 or 2 can get you tons of loot. I've died to players on my scav when I had over a million rubles worth of loot on me.

25 : Anonymous2021/12/08 15:20 ID: hnq50kw

It's mostly for questing I feel the need to "get the fuck out!" But you can do what you want. Getting out with my quest items and completing the quest is often more important than looking for loot the rest of the raid.

26 : Anonymous2021/12/08 15:38 ID: hnq7pms

My average life is like 40 minutes or some shit. I stay to the end myself but I also go in raids without goals.


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