Endgame farm is poorly designed and is driving people out of the game.

1 : Anonymous2021/05/09 08:54 ID: n8aa9z

Yes I know there are tons of bugs/issues driving the people out of the game.... but this one is unfortunatelly "by design".

What is the point of the endgame farm in looter shooter? To optimize build.

However if the RNG is set up in the way you can farm for hundered of hours without the progress most of the people will simply give up.

Before all the smarta**es will came with "you play the wrong game, thats how looter shooter works" - well.... no.

Well designed looter shooter has RNG part where you can get lucky and the pity part where you are awarded by the time/effort. Second part is completely missing from Outriders.

It is dumb as it would be really easy to implement - just add shop where you can buy any legendary for xxxxxx expedition resources so people can feel the progress.

Btw - I have more the 300 hours played, have 3 classes at CT15 - and if I would not used/abused Noah glich I would not have a single working legendary set. And even with this I still do not have a single full set.

2 : Anonymous2021/05/09 10:38 ID: gxhgypa

Yeah, it’s a really weird system. To make Legendaries a core port of the progression system, but then give no way to actually target your farming. About the only reliable place to get them is Gold CT15, but if you havent already got those tier 3 mods, it’s gonna be real sweaty to reliably get those golds, making the whole loop broken.

It’s one thing for low drop rates on Legendaries if they are just a nice to have or novelty item as they are in other games, but there’s no excuse here. If you’re going to do it this way, the Legendary drop rate needs a significant increase across the board. Especially given they’re telling us this isn’t a live service, you shouldn’t be spending hundreds of hours grinding for one item if it’s not a live service.

ID: gxhw2tb

So easily corrected by having Tiago get a rotating stock. I'm basically waiting for DLC and then I will reevaluate the state of the game at that point. I hope it's improved enough to make me want to purchase dlc and dive back in.

ID: gxib8m7

Considering it’s apparently not a live service, I don’t know why Tiago doesn’t just sell all Legendaries. Balance it how you want, but I capped out on Expo and Scrap weeks ago and have nothing to use them on. This suggests I should be “done” but I’m still grinding for specific gear pieces.

ID: gxi4ge6

Didn't they already say that there won't be any dlcs?

ID: gxigq56

Yeah, exactly, why should I grind countless hours to get the best build and legendaries? Just to have them? If it’s not a games as a service, I have just spent 100+ hours just to have that gear to not use? To maybe just play the same expeditions over and over again in the hopes that there may be an expansion or two?

ID: gxiazwu

Yeah i miss only death shield for my pyro (but already 2x high roller for example). Melting things through debuffs in groups but its way harder solo without the weapon. 180 hours in (like 40-50 on technomancer before it got inventory wiped.

I do expeditions in group (14 seems to give more loot) and did several wanted quests. Beat eye of the storm (silver). Farmed WT to 15 but still no luck.

Would love tiagos legendarys to rotate. With CT 15 as the ceiling, whats the point to hold some build crucial items back like that?

Would like to see my build at full potential, but without the deathshield do way less damage.

This comes from an d3 player with 2500h in, but whats the point here when CT15 is the ceiling?

I would even buy a crate which gives a random legendary you dont have for max pod ressources, would make it targetable.

ID: gxiflsb

I think the whole loop is broken when "targeted stats" epic rolls are simply better than legendaries and any set bonus they give. There is no point to go for legendary armor (except for possible tier 3 mod dismantles), because the sets don't have the right stats. There are just a couple exceptions (i.e. dev bleed set), but I think the entire loot grind is totally broken when legendary sets are actually trash. And I don't want to grind for epics. So I just don't care anymore. I'm similar to OP. I have two characters to CT15 and I understand the grind, the builds, the best legendary weapons and mods, etc. And I'm done with the game. I'm tired of knowing the legendary sets aren't really worth grinding over and grinding for "god tier epic rolls" is just stupid at this point (after doing it for 2 characters).

I'm just tired of the game. I stopped playing a week and a half ago and I'm probably done with it for good.

ID: gxiru45

We need a targeted loot system. So people can go out and farm for specific legendries and max firepower purples.

And we need consistent drop chances in you RNG algo. No I dont need my 20th Iceberg or Grim Marrow.

3 : Anonymous2021/05/09 10:44 ID: gxhhdbc

Also soloing expeditions is 10x more fun than playing with others, even people I know. My build is focused around getting kills to keep the damage growing and rolling, but in multiplayer the enemies are just bullet sponges that ruin it and I'm suddenly the weak link

ID: gxhpq53

added to the fact that lots of mods require you to do the actual killing. Oh your party member killed the mob you were almost finishing off? Oh well your stacks of whatever have just worn off. Tough diddies.

ID: gxhpspv

Also also, how many stacks do I have of anything?? Who knows. It's a guessing game

ID: gxi3au5

Yeah there needs to be a "marking" method. It counts as a kill for the purposes of mods if you hit them .5 seconds before or something

ID: gxiayfn

The Division 2 is filled with "on kill" effects which is inherently poor design, because it simply means that your build becomes stronger when the enemies are weaker, and the build becomes weaker when the enemies get stronger. In multiplayer when the enemies health scales so high that you no longer get kills that easily + the other players might "steal" your proc by killing the enemy.

It's just clunky design and sad to see it in Outriders too, the "on kill" effects should have secondary conditions that scale off damage or crits against elites and the "on kill" full effect against minors.

4 : Anonymous2021/05/09 10:16 ID: gxhfj3v

Been hitting golds all night in hopes of getting a good set. What I've gotten is 2 duplicate body pieces of the same variety. Another of the same helmet and boots and a few weapons that have been duplicates. And to give me 4 pieces of gear that are already part of the same set and duplicates of what I have is very irritating. as I usually only have one night off a week. To sit and grind this out.

I'm ok with random drops from the pods. But some other sources of unaquired gear would be great. A weighted system to get new stuff would be difficult. Breaking down gear for mods is viable and so is the gear. So duplicates do work in some cases. But giving me 2 extra torturer body pieces bringing my total to 4 so far is a bit much.

ID: gxhrn8j

The loot table isn’t randomized properly either...I’m definitely not the only one ending up with an insane amount of that cannonball shit.

ID: gxhtnuh

I have a sneaking suspicion that the cannonball set is weighted more heavily than the other glass sets tbh. I'm not sure how the loot system works, but if it's say... Roll to see if you get legendary. Roll to see what slot. Then roll to see what loot, I would imagine like... If it rolls 1-10, you'll get a cannonball piece. If you get 11-15, you'll get an Acari set etc. Just feels like you're more likely to get cannonball than anything else lol

ID: gxhic9b

I think my first boomtown gold solo on my dev gave me two statue boots and a different statue piece. Needless to say I wasn't very excited after I saw what I had wasted all my luck on. They definitely need a weighted system.

ID: gxhtcg1

I don't know if you've played diablo 3, bit that is in essence the direct outline for this game. Non deterministic drops is the point. This isn't a 1 night a week game, the loot grind is intended to be dozens of hours long.

The real problem is there no middle grind chill out farm. It's sprint 15s and that gets old fast. They also should change world tiers to something resembling paragon, so that at least you're gaining passive strength in the background between drops.

ID: gxhxemu

Not the same really...diablo's method was to drop a ton of legendaries at a time so it was rather easy to complete a set. They focused more on getting the right rolls on legendary items, not making it take prohibitively long to get the actual piece.

5 : Anonymous2021/05/09 10:45 ID: gxhhdx8

I consider myself a “casual” despite having around 200 hours in the game (including demo). The fact my characters don’t naturally have a single 3 piece set (let alone 5) at this point is infuriating. They all look like hot garbage. Being on Xbox with pathetic loading times, anything that requires more time in loading screens (like the hunt scam) is out. For hardcore players, I can see the appeal of the current RNG but it is an abysmal setup for creating a widely popular game.

6 : Anonymous2021/05/09 11:53 ID: gxhm47p

Played this game for 178 hours according to steam, all on 1 Character, just got my first Ugake Otarah's Cowl. Just realised that was the only reason i was still playing the game......

ID: gxhrnc3

Lol it's funny when that realization sinks in.

Had mine a week ago. Finished my build finally, ok now what?

Join the multiplayer mayhem and try to see how my build works in laggy, jank environment until I disconnect lol.


ID: gxhwtgj

This is the CORE issue. Yes you can make the argument timed, sweaty af expeditions are not a fun mechanic. But some people enjoy it. For me PCF needs to take note real F#@!ing quick that the shit networking code is literally destroying their game. I have like 6 coworkers playing, so people are always online running expeditions. But there is no point playing because the laggy wonky movements and broken skill usage, along with constant disconnects when launching expeditions or at random times in expeditions jis just destroying this game. I know PCF has so many BROKEN things they need to fix, but this is what will be the death of this game. And I highly recommend they come out and admit they have a problem, and show they are working on it. Most of all ADMIT you have a MAJOR MAJOR issue with connections. Lets see just a few broken things from someone with only 200 hours in:
1. Gravity leap is utterly broken. It either locks up and fails to lock on to a target, or on the rare occasions it actually works you "stick" to the ground for 4 seconds after each use. The only positive on this is that enemies tend to NOT target you while you are stuck.
2. Logging in on xbox and ps is utterly ludicrous. Signing in, you stare at a sign in screen for 4 minutes. WTF is going on in the background? A handshake and validation doesn't take 4 F#@%ing minutes does it? Unless they are trying to hide resource loading behind this, there is no reason for this to be so slow.
3. Teleporting and lag, delayed skill usage, icons not properly showing when a skill is used or is charged and ready.
4. Networking code and constant crashes. I played with 2 friends last night, we ran 8 expeditions. We each were kicked out and the game crashed a minimum of 6 times. For EACH OF US. 6 F#%@ing disconnects in one night. Couple this with the above 4 minute freaking sign in delay and you can imagine people are just done.
I seriously love the combat in this game. But the networking issues are DESTROYING this game and PCF has done nothing to admit the problem, and show us you have a roadmap to fixing it. With high speed connections so widespread, there is only one reason this is happening in this day and age. A failure to pay for dedicated servers because they were being cheap, but even P2P shouldn't be this terrible. They have something majorly broken and need to pay someone to come in and fix the problem, if they can't diagnose it themselves.

ID: gxhsdf0

Yeah when you realize you're playing a game to get a piece of gear you don't need to actually beat the game but you just want to complete the build....except it cost you 100 more hours.

RNG Rewards = one of the shittiest game design concepts ever created in video games.

Right up there with microtransactions.

7 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:09 ID: gxhnabj

I don’t have a full set nor do I have three mods I desperately need and I’ve been playing since release. So much time and NOTHING. It’s becoming overly frustrating

8 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:37 ID: gxhpme9

Until the damage mitigation bug is fixed, I don't even have an endgame farm. I can't do any expeditions without getting one shot random regardless of defensive buffs I have. All I have is repeating bounties and monster hunts using the T1 x9 then T15 method for the last one. It's boring an repetitive but it's better than going through an expedition where I do fine till with my six defensive buffs active and near max shields, a brood mother or rifleman decides now's the time to end my progress with a oneshot.

ID: gxhs4l9

I hope you know about the hunt glitch or that is a monumental waste of time. Unless of course you enjoy the grind then that's cool.

9 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:51 ID: gxhqus2

All they have to do is make Tiago shop rotate weekly… like why The Fuck doesn’t it already???

10 : Anonymous2021/05/09 09:28 ID: gxhcmct

but this one is unfortunatelly "by design".

Of course this was purely intentional.

They were perfectly aware that Outriders was on the lower end regarding amount of content for a looter shooter, especially for endgame with all the recycled enemies.

For that reason they didn't add dedicated drops or dupe protection or even excluded certain legendaries from hunts. Just to artificially prolong playtime.

11 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:45 ID: gxhqcwh

Agree with you op. I really don't get the shitty loot. We are not in competition with eachother. I'd like 2 things really. Remove cannonball from exhibitions and have Tiago rotate Legos. That way those that say you have to grind are satisfied because you still have to work for them.

12 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:48 ID: gxhqneg

Love getting Torrential Downpour Boots for the 15th time.

13 : Anonymous2021/05/09 13:20 ID: gxhtkto

I just don't understand the separation of world tier and challenge tier. Make the entire game based on world tier, even if that means higher world tiers in the base game are as brutal as the higher expedition tiers. That allows us to get level 50 drops wherever we play. People wouldn't get burned out as much, because there would be so many more ways to farm for drops.

14 : Anonymous2021/05/09 13:57 ID: gxhx6lp

I was also hoping that there would be targeted loot, the whole “farm anything to get a chance at everything” doesn’t work for me in looter shooters.

15 : Anonymous2021/05/09 15:35 ID: gxi8lus

Endgame is literally just grind expeditions. I don't know how anyone thought this had any longevity past the main story. Which by the way, fantastic game and story, loved them both. But now that I've reached the end and especially when others were gifted god tier rolls and I personally wasn't, I unfortunately see no reason to continue and will likely be uninstalling this week.

16 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:37 ID: gxhpome

yeah, its crazy that the legendaries starts to drop more often on CT14-15. You have to climb the whole game with a non-legendary build. Once you finally get what you want, you are already on top so what's the point?

17 : Anonymous2021/05/09 11:42 ID: gxhl8ha

Deathproof and Marshall chest piece is all I get on a loop. So glad Returnal came out, something to pull me away from this car wreck. Once the devs pretty much opposed all of the communities sentiments.. I knew it wasn’t going to go anywhere.

18 : Anonymous2021/05/09 13:03 ID: gxhrynm

Outside of removing the timer for expeditions, I like expeditions but it’s the loot and stuff that keeps me out of the game cause I hate that epics and blues are better in stats then Legendaries. I know people will defend it saying “bUt LeGeNdArIEs aRe oNlY fOr tHe mOds” that doesn’t fly with me. Legendaries are suppose to be the best of the best in every way.

19 : Anonymous2021/05/09 10:55 ID: gxhi1cm

if i get rich ill make the looter shooter game we need. promise

20 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:16 ID: gxhnvyn

i've been living under a rock, whats this Noah glitch?

ID: gxhqwcs

Turn all monster hunts but before leaving the dialogue go to Noahs vendor page and look under sell. It will show your inventory with your new legendary. At this point the game has not created a savepoint. If you do not want the drop just force the game to close or disconnect it from your internet and repeat till you get what you want.

21 : Anonymous2021/05/09 12:59 ID: gxhrlw0

this plus the multiplayer issues and constant crashes of the game draws the fun out of it and that is so sad.

22 : Anonymous2021/05/09 13:00 ID: gxhrr1x

Im still stuck at CT11. Not good enough to go solo on pyro. Now i'm just farming at lower CT (6-8) for alternative equipment but even if i managed gold score, there is slim chance for legendary. Having scored full achievement list, there is little incentive to play aggressively. I hope we can earn points to level up and higher CT. Otherwise, im going to be stuck at level 45 for a long time.

23 : Anonymous2021/05/09 13:35 ID: gxhv1z2

Yeah, especially because it's a non live service game. PCF need to look at borderlands and Diablo. I only have 1 of my seismic commander pieces. Shouldn't take this long to put a set together.

24 : Anonymous2021/05/09 13:56 ID: gxhx40n

They made two colossal faults:

1.) legendaries don't have random stats

2.) there is nothing you can do with duplicate legendaries for example, unlock the second mod slot if have fuse x duplicates into a legendary

if they had both they could give out 5-10 times the amounts of legendaries but we would be still farming and be fare from done.
As you already noticed, with the current system there is no sense of progression at all. some builds flat out need certain legedaries to work and with the current drop rates you actually need to play a different build for 100+ hours so you can farm ct15 until you finally have the set to play the build you want, but by then you have already beaten the endgame.
for any loot based game you need constant progress. if not constant updgrades you at least need constant sidegrades, better both. The loot spiral should work in a way where you climb from CT1 to CT15 and your build "grows" on the way. But currently all you do is level up the same stuff you already have until you reach CT15 and finally have a remotely acceptable drop rate.
With my two propositions we could get much more legendaries on our way up to CT15, get working builds already around ct10 and then continue the hunt to perfect the builds with legendaries that have the perfect random stats and use the unwanted duplicates to unlock the second slots the even boost our builds more. This way you have constant progression.

Also CT15 should not be the tier you finally farm you gear, it should be the tier you are expected to have a complete build and now you need to perfect your skills playing with it to beat it. But that is not the case.

So the whole loot spiral of the end game content is nearly non existent and such a colossal fail that i really doubt PCF has any talent for those kind of things.

25 : Anonymous2021/05/09 14:02 ID: gxhxpv8

The game is a finished product according to devs. Why they should care that people leave the game? They still paid money, that's all what they care about.

26 : Anonymous2021/05/09 14:04 ID: gxhxw0k

We know

27 : Anonymous2021/05/09 15:12 ID: gxi5sgu

yeah I'm there, gold CT 15 runs rewarding constantly the same legendary and only of of them after countless runs.

I'm not saying it should rain legendries per run but at least give other ways of getting them.

The endgame was totally rushed and is incredibly basic compared to other looters.

28 : Anonymous2021/05/09 15:32 ID: gxi87be

Yep I'm done I've moved on. Playing returnal now and loving it

29 : Anonymous2021/05/09 15:43 ID: gxi9jnr

Yep. This was a fun game to play through the main story, but at the end of the game it gets stupid. I have to compete for kills in multiplayer so the entire reason I wanted to play is invalidated because it feels like I have to compete against my friends to keeping dealing damage instead of working with my friends to deal damage. I got the end of the story and got CT13 and quit because its not worth it imho. Its a fun game but the grind is relentless and it doesn't feel like I'm being rewarded properly for my time. I hoped that this game would fill the looter shooter hole that warframe left when I left it behind. Nope. Outriders is so close to being a good game but it falls flat on the most important aspects. Inb4 PCF releases DLC that makes it an amazing game but its locked behind $40 DLC.

30 : Anonymous2021/05/09 15:49 ID: gxia5sb

I still think they should have went with a Wave Survival type instead of Time Trial type gameplay for end game. It would've made more builds viable too. And with each wave you survive the percentage of legendaries will go up until you're guaranteed one because of the amount of waves you survived, plus extra legendary drops based on said wave levels until you get another guaranteed drop. You can still get legendary drop chances that are not guaranteed as well. The CT would still determine loot level and mob level as well as the starting percentage for legendary drops as it does now. It'd be easy to set up where you can continously get guaranteed legendaries the more waves you survive. Time Trials are just absolutley awful and honestly I didn't think it really fit well for this game's type of gameplay. I mean, why time trials?


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