I’ve been browsing through reviews of biomutant and they’re pretty weak at best. The games we get these days may be big and beautiful, but they lack polish. Outriders is a good example, endless bugs, month long fixes, multiplayer issues, inventory wipes. Cyberpunk was a total train wreck.
I remember growing up with games that actually worked the way they were supposed to. Games all the way back to snes like chrono trigger, Ocarina of time on N64, FF7, basically anything metal gear, half life 2 on pc just to name a few. We didn’t have to pay 10 bucks for a digital outfit, micro transactions have put the gaming industry in the toilet. Sports games are a carbon copy each year, full of pay to win mechanics. Publishers making money on a broken product is becoming all to popular. Square started a 25 percent discount on outriders, even with game breaking bugs still in play, horrible multiplayer connectivity. It’s a slap in the face to the loyal player that paid full price and hung on through all the BS. The game hasn’t even been out 2 months yet. There should be standards set in place so that we don’t end up with unfinished junk when we pay $80 for a game. Publishers like CD project flat out lied about the state of their game and deserve every law suit they get hit with and it should be the same going forward for every broken release.
My rant for the day
Its pretty simple. Back in the day games HAD to be stable and have minimal issues because there was no over the air updates to fix issues. The increased complexity added with over the ability to update anytime leads to games not coming out as polished as they should be.ID: gzbt3bo
The old Star Wars ROTS game use to have a bug that if you aimed at certain spot while the Jedi fighters escaping the game would crash! No fixing that bad boy!ID: gzbfaut
I don't think you remotely understand how broken so many releases were back in the day and never, ever got fixed because they just couldn't.
There used to be bugs that quite literally stopped you from being able to progress and there was nothing you could do about it.
So many half baked, incomplete and broken releases, too. One of Destroy All Humans spin-offs famously didn't even get approval from Sony to be distributed and sold in European and NA markets because of how broken and incomplete it was.
And worse were the licensed games. Remember Charlie's Angels? Remember that Bad Boys game? Remember Fight Club? Remember that fucking Sopranos game? Remember Bionicle?ID: gzbkjod
OP mentioned FF7, I encountered a bug in the very last area where you could put down a portable save spot where you could heal and save the game. It was also in front of some rooms with some really nice xp per hour mobs. If you put the save point there, you couldn't get up the ladder anymore and there was no way out. It was all done and dusted from that point forward.
Is funny that you mention Half Life 2 because when that game came with a mandatory broken (at the time) Steam activation the gamers RIOTED: gaming magazines were full of people angrily sending letters that they were going to pirate the game.ID: gzbb9iv
You don’t even have to go back that far. Diablo 3 in 2012 was a bit of a mess at launch but is hailed as the Holy Grail today. In fact, it took 23 months before its saving grace, Loot 2.0, arrived. Tassi, who gets lauded around here a lot, even wrote about it in 2014, noting the loot was terrible and people couldn’t connect to games. Sounds familiar. ...ID: gzbdvam
Absolutely, I used Diablo 3 as an example in here a lot.
WoW is another bad launch people forget, and that game became a cultural reality. Even Non Gamers played WoW!
I think the biggest reason why games are "not as good as they used to be" is because of the internet. Back in the day if I played a buggy mess maybe I knew it, maybe I didn't. But now, I can read 5000 posts on why someone's nose hairs are making this game unplayable!
The internet does many amazing things (and I'm a fan!) - but it also amplifies every single message out there until "we know" something to be true. George Orwell would be proud.
As a side illustration, I played through Witcher 3 for the first time when it was on Game Pass.
I was shocked at what a buggy mess that game still is. Yet we "know" it's a great game. If it came out today, it would get the Cyberpunk treatment.
Only 2 things we can do.
Never, and The Rock means Evvvvvvvveeeeerrrr, preorder games.
Hold devs/publishers accountable long term. For example, If this game was a quick cash grab and doesnt get fixed/improved then never buy from SE or PCF again.
Unfortunately, both easier said then done.
Well one part of it is that games are way more complicated now, and that doesn’t necessarily translate into being that much better at fixing bugs.
We didn’t have to pay 10 bucks for a digital outfit,
You don’t have to pay that now. If you’re speaking on having the option to, well most games didn’t have those extra outfits to begin with.
Sports games are a carbon copy each year
I don’t remember that ever not being the case besides story focused sports games like wrestling or the later Tony hawk games.
There should be standards set in place so that we don’t end up with unfinished junk when we pay $80 for a game.
You don’t want that. Setting up standards for games based on price is going to result in a significant increase in the cost of a game. You’ll also see less innovation and longer periods between releases.
Publishers like CD project flat out lied about the state of their game and deserve every law suit they get hit with and it should be the same going forward for every broken release.
I mean to each their own I guess. I didn’t hear them lie myself, but even if they did, almost every single review didn’t. Yet people still bought it. Shit, fuck buying it, It broke records for pre-orders. That’s nobody’s fault but the consumers.
Part of this is a shift in the industry as games became more popular. A lot of it is just nostalgia and survival bias though. We had tons of shit games back in the day and bugs were something we worked around or abused because they would never get fixed. I remember having one of the early Rage Wars N64 cartrige that actually had a glitch that prevented you from fully completing the game.
There are also a ton of good games coming out or that have used the newer industry standards to their advantage or have ignored them to make callbacks to oldschool games with modern improvements. There is no better time then now to be a gamer IMO. We have access to more games then we ever have, games mixing genres are far more prevalent, story telling in the industry has had some of its all time highs in the last 15 years or so. Don't get me wrong, the industry certainly has issues, particularly the large publishers but it is hardly all doom and gloom.ID: gzaf3q2
A perfect example of an older game that was every bit as buggy as some of the buggier newer games is The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall. Fun game that was extremely ambitious, but it was a buggy mess on release. I do think that we see a lot of uninspired games and buggy messes today, but we saw those in the past as well. It’s just that communication is so much quicker and widespread now so everyone knows about those buggy and uninspired games.ID: gzas0jq
fucking LOL at using a bethesda game as an example for bugs
Biomutant looked like it was going to be hot garbage from miles away. I really don't know how a lot of people went head-on for it.ID: gzbbmgb
Because hype. Every single “new” game gets hyped as the best game ever and the “[insert older game here] killer.” And then they’re not. Rinse, repeat.ID: gzahdyz
I expected something on par with breath of the wild, but I guess that’s not the case.ID: gzanblb
I would never expect something on par with a mainline Zelda game from a THQ project. They're just two dramatically different levels of quality.ID: gzb5sj0
Obviously not common knowledge but the game was made by a team of 20 people it had no chance reaching that level.
Zelda likely had 100s & a much bigger budget.
You grew up.
That's it, is that simple.ID: gzad1a8
It’s funny because I was thinking that while typing lol. I don’t play as long or as often as I used to, but I still like to relax behind a good game.
Biomutant is just passing?
That's a shame I've been looking forward to that for a while, what are the complaints?ID: gzaa97v
IGN and gamespot have both posted reviews. Both gave it a 6. I’m still going to play it but I was a little disappointed in those scores.ID: gzalo4j
I usually don't look at scored reviews. Biomutant has lower score on Metacritic than Outriders 😀 I'll wait couple of weeks for more video reviews and then decide if it's worth my time.ID: gzbl3rg
Both of those sites are awful for reviews. If it's a Nintendo game they basically just slap 10s on it and if it's a AAA game it's 9+ and if it's a small dev expect 7s and below. They don't even hide the fact that they're paid-for reviews.
There's definitely still good games coming out, while outriders is probably the most broken game i've played in a long time i'd day that most of my purchases have been great. Games that i'm looking forward to this year are: Ratchet and clank rift apart,Guilty gear strive, Scarlet nexus and death loop. If you want recommendations of good games to play that have come out recently, i'd recommend: Devil may cry 5,Doom eternal,borderlands 3,Streets of rage 4,It takes two (if you got a buddy) etc. There have been quite a few disappointments lately however i feel like it will pick up from june onwardID: gzadvoy
I play on series x, I’m a game pass subscriber. I’ve been a devil may cry fan since the original, loved doom eternal, both good examples of games done right. I did suffer through cyberpunk, but after getting through the campaign I haven’t played it since. The ori games were a surprise to me, I really enjoyed them.ID: gzakxa6
Oh you have Gamepass? then i definitely recommend sunset overdrive. that game is so much fun
It’s a slap in the face to the loyal player that paid full price and hung on through all the BS. The game hasn’t even been out 2 months yet. There should be standards set in place so that we don’t end up with unfinished junk when we pay $80 for a game.
There are standards in place - WE are the standard. We are the maker of our own destinies, we decide what games are worth playing using the magic of the internet and gaming media to find out if they're busted before we buy them.
The reason we have microtransactions today is that, when microtransactions were first introduced, tons of people bought them. When developers release busted games, tons of people buy them. We set the standard for what an acceptable game release is in 2021, and we have set that standard very, very low.
The good news is that gaming still has good companies and great games, you just have to play those instead. I loved my time with Obra Dinn, RE8, Death Stranding (maybe controversial), Monster Hunter, Doom Eternal, Metro: Exodus, Devil May Cry 5, just to name a few over the past years.
Nostalgia is defiantly a factor. Originality is as well. It's VERY difficult to come up with an original design nowadays for a story and gameplay stand point. I don't know how much a game development routine but I'm not fond of how games try to prioritize graphics over everything else though I'm mostly in it for the RPG's. Give me a good battle system and story over these super graphics any day.
And the end of the day thought I still don't think it's OK for games to launch with so many bugs. Going to have to have some federal law in place or something to protect people from where the video game industry is heading.ID: gzaynjj
it doesnt even have to be original , finding a good game that has a simple but ''good'' base loop is really hard nowadays . bugs can be fixed ort whatever . what matters is about what it delivers to the player in a single session (for its respesctive genre ofc)
Because the gaming industry has become less about the game and more about lining corporate pockets. The higher ups and management positions have been given too much control and its ruined the industry because they only care about the investors and not the players
So where are all the posters around here who were “threatening” to leave Outriders for Biomutant because the latter was going to be so amazing? Herp derp ...
Tons of reasons for this. But I think the main reasons are: 1. Preordering 2. Ability to push updates after release 3. Over-focus on visual fidelity, art, and large worlds (cause, we wanna use these fancy machines right?). Also, too much focus on character progression. 4. Stagnant product prices in a hyper-competitive market
The changes I wish we’d see in the market 1. Preordering prices should always be 15% less with the expectation that the game is being released in an extended beta version for those who’ve preordered. I also, don’t think preorders should get refunds. As in, you’re paying for early access to an unfinished game. You take on some of that risk. 2. Beta release and official release for all major titles 3. Devs need to focus on what we do in the world MORE than the world itself. I should be wowed more by the gameplay than by the world. - I am a firm believer in piecing out major releases. Maybe start with half of the game you want and fill it to the brim with fun stuff to do in it then release the other half when it’s ready. FF7 remake is a good example of this.We should expect to pay more for major titles. It’s absurd that Outriders and Cyberpunk 2077 are the same price.
It’s due to market share. So companies want to make sure they retain their market share and release a minimum viable product. So produce enough to get the gaming going and patch it later so that they can be the first and retain market share. Also, there’s a severe lack of originality. Everyone is copying someone else’s style. Outriders is like a ground version of Anthem. This is what we get as consumers for, well, consuming so much.
This is why I like Sonys first party offerings so much, quality titles, very few issues and usually GOTY material.ID: gzam1ym
Each one has his own favorites - I've been spoiled by Nintendo.
AAA games are mind-bogglingly complex. Comparing to old console systems they're literally thousands of times larger, with hundreds more people involved. Many games must be built for three different platforms simultaneously, and that's not even touching the variation in PC hardware.
Everyone loves to bash on microtransactions, but the average price of games has actually been going DOWN over the decades. Inflation and game scale means they're more expensive to make than ever, but gamers revolt if anyone suggests the price should go up by $10. They've had to get creative because gamers are cheap.
If you'd be content with low-rez graphics on simple games that provide a dozen hours or so of gameplay, then yeah - the '90s were generally better. But expectations have gone up, gamers demand more, and aren't willing to pay for it. Something's going to give.
Some is the playerbase and some is the developers. Players seem to have shorter attention spans these days jumping from game to game. So, demand for new stuff is increased.
Sports games have somewhat always been like that with carbon copies. Initially there were QoL updates and technology updates that made the sports games feel new each year. They have reached a point where improvements are actually making the games worse and nothing new comes out. The only way for them to keep yearly updates is to force you to rebuy the rebranded same game.
Micro transactions have always been a horrible idea and should not be legal. This is a symptom of the same problem as preorders and season passes. People are ok buying an incomplete game and forking out money. I really miss the days where you bought a game and got a complete game.
The standards will be there when companies stop making money off of half finished crap and micro transactions
Can’t speed runners glitch/exploit through most of those games in literal minutes? I do get what you mean though. The games as a service model has been mostly bad. The only major upside being that given time people are able to build on a base game and make an incredible world. Everyone is just a slow starter lately. I was big into destiny and destiny 2 and the devs have only recently gotten around to adding features that my friends and I bitched about constantly starting from launch in d1. Unfortunately not everyone wants to wait forever to get the game they assumed they would be playing.
Games got larger and more complex. As the complexity and ambition grew it is likely we introduce more bugs in the code.
Old console games had no chance for a quick dlc patch in the 80s, so they had to be perfect before going to cartridge or CD to be sold. But the amount of code required to make them were substantially less than what we get now.
Due to the complexity some devs rely on third party source and tools even more to bring down the amount of time it will take to develop a game. They use existing engines like Unreal or Unity for example so they don't need to start from absolute scratch, but these tools already have bugs of their own. It is only a handful of devs who actually create their own engine from scratch and can afford the extra time to release.
Then comes the hardware. GPUs are immensely more complex than what we had in the early 80s and 90s for output. Getting code to work across all the different permutations in hardware and software is a real challenge.
back in the day, you could just blow into a cartridge to fix the bugs lol.
Games are just as bad now as they were then.
The difference is now you have people, who do not like the game take over the forums by posting negative comments and drowning out all of the positive comments.
For instance. Players who have a positive experience are going to go to the forums and make posts about how great the game is...Unlikely. VERY unlikely.
Players who have a negative experience are HIGHLY likely to make a post about their negative experience. And the negative posts tend to accumulate quickly. Negativity loves company.
The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall (Bethesda 1996) - several completely game breaking bugs, i.e. literally game breaking including corrupting the saves. The eventual patch couldn't even retain your previous saves even if they were functionally working, supposedly because they were all in some way corrupted.
Fallout 2 (Black Isle Studios 1998) - released unfinished, and though still had the Fallout 1 magic had many game breaking bugs. Future fan made patch restored many of the unfinished missions and fixed the majority of bugs.
So no, games have always been broken, the fact they've gotten even more complex though definitely hasn't helped. Also, money hungry corps like EA, Activision, SE, Bethesda etc... fuck things up to (though Bioware and PCF shot themselves in the foot).
Its mainly multiplayer games with the exception of cyberpunk which was ass and ghost of tsuhima who's multiplayer was flawless. So i wont be playing any new multiplayer entry's for a while personally. Im just going to wait 2 months personally before a i buy any new multiplayer entry.
I think AAA titles are getting worse but there are more AAA titles. I can name about twenty games I loved during the PS4 cycle, and that’s about on par.
Unfortunately, I can also name at least five games I paid money for on day one due to my excitement only to realized I’ve fucked up and bout and Outriders. As we continue the slow crawl towards digital only systems and we lose the ability for resale, this won’t be a habit repeated with the PS5.
It’s unfortunate but I’ve now got to go a step beyond NOT pre-ordering and give games a good month of reviews before even considering a purchase, and that fucking sucks. I’m going to have to go a step beyond checking your resume because one reason I risked a buy on this title was the association with Square, and I used to respect them enough that this was all I needed to hear. Can’t do that either anymore.
But apparently my purchasing changes haven’t and won’t change the decisions being made at these companies. They are quite comfortable putting out shit and watching us complain while we eat it. There’s nothing to do but worry about myself and make better purchases in the future.
It’d be nice if we could all do that but we couldn’t convince gamers to stop pre-ordering shit so I don’t have much faith here. Gaming will get worse before it gets better because it’s apparently profitable for that to be the case.
Is any game worth $60 now or were they ever? I think the problem with many games including Outriders and now Biomutant is they have a whole lot of nothing to make them feel like they are worth the $60 price tag. Both feel more like $30 games to me.
If Outriders had reasonable legendary drop rates so you could beat the game in 30 hours or so it would be fairly priced at $30 or maybe $40. Instead they force you to play hundreds of hours for a "complete game" to try to justify charging $60.
Biomutant is a 15 hour game with 45 hours of optional time wasting fetch quests. The world is huge but almost completely empty. All I've heard is how the world 64 square km but who cares if 90% of it is devoid of anything other than grass? It seems that it's size is to waste your time traveling or maybe they were finally told to wrap up development and ship it as is.
The $60 (and now for same games $70) price at launch needs to be completely re-evaluated. I don't see myself paying that for any game anytime soon. I get far more value out of Game Pass and indie games for under $30. I spent 300 hours playing Valheim because I wanted to and was having fun not because of intentionally bad RNG for drop rates.ID: gzaxrzo
Honestly I feel like there's more $15-30 games out there that I'd happily pay 60 for than $60 games I'd buy for even 30.ID: gzbb36v
So $2/hour of entertainment is not a reasonable price?
company boards are wanting money NOW. they have forgotten the real way of making money. short term gain, long term loss. real money comes in when the consumer base is happy. happy customer, big wallets.ID: gzaakxl
I agree, they all have that “I don’t care, get it out now” attitude.