AMD’s new Zen 4 CPUs for Socket AM5 – Temperature and power management of Raphael explained in detail | Exclusive | igor´sLAB

1 : Anonymous2021/09/08 06:05 ID: pk4syk
AMD’s new Zen 4 CPUs for Socket AM5 - Temperature and power management of Raphael explained in detail | Exclusive | igor´sLAB
2 : Anonymous2021/09/08 08:20 ID: hc1b7vt

I have been an early adopter of AM4 and luckily had none of the problems that seemed to be plaguing everyone else, but I think I'll not jump to the AM5 bandwagon right away and let board partners/AMD address all the day 0 issues. First reviews about the new products after launch are going to be interesting.

ID: hc1ipi9

I jumped onto the AM4 platform when Zen+ came by, so I was lucky not to have the issues my friends had with the Zen 1 generation, so I share your sentiment, I will probably jump into AM5 on Zen 5.

ID: hc1txmm

same tbh zen4 will be good but man ddr5 is gonna be expensive af gonna stick with my 5900x till zen 5 or even 6 for an optimal upgrade

ID: hc20g1v

I jumped on ryzen as soon as I had the money for it, 1.5 years after launch, but I had built my sister a ryzen pc like 6 months before that so I knew the platform was decent and not bug ridden.

AMD has to try hard to keep up their momentum, and based on how well ryzen launched the previous times I personally think it's safe to say that they have their shit together for the moment. I think it will be fine until they go to a new architecture AND a new socket, then I would be a bit worried about day 0 bugs.

ID: hc1qw8w

It makes sense to wait a year or two for DDR5 prices to come down anyway. There will also undoubtably be faster and better modules available by then as well. Early DDR4 was very sketchy and pretty slow by today's standards. Some of the early ICs designed for X99 have trouble running at all on modern platforms. There's no reason to get caught up in all that IMO. Once it matures a bit and people figure out the lay of the land as far as overclocking and such goes (things like figuring out what the new Samsung B-Die is, for example), it'll be a much better time to buy in.

ID: hc21ua8

This is my plan, the only tangible benefit of AM5 (IMO) is the fact you can run DDR5, simultaneously the only draw back to AM5 right now is the price of DDR5

ID: hc2b94y

Depends a bit on what you're building and the longevity of your builds, I'd say. For plenty of people here, they probably do upgrades (if not full rebuilds) every couple of years or sooner. By the time those better iterations are available, they'd probably be looking at a new build either way. In that regard, if you're OK with whatever those (likely high) DDR5 launch prices bring, then I guess go for it.

If DDR5's launch brings good gains on iGPU performance, then the early adopter tax on an APU might be worth it...but AMD has to hopefully step up their iGPU game on Zen 4 at the same time.

ID: hc373re

DDR5 is coming this year.

So Zen 4 will already be like a year after DDR5's consumer launch. Not to mention DDR5 is looking like it's gonna launch in a more developed state than DDR4 did.

ID: hc1nvpt

Yep I jumped in with both feet for zen and x370, launch was a mess and I'm sure Asus helped create a lot of the problems for me (crosshair 6 hero) but it's mostly a stable system eventually.

I won't be jumping in to AM5 mostly due to the x370 being blocked from supporting zen3 for no real reason which is a shame.

I will see what the year after brings and if AMD is still better performance for same or less price then I'll gladly go for then again but maybe Intel will bring the fight this time!

ID: hc21y21

I got the crosshair VI as well, but had zero issues. What sort of issues did you have?

ID: hc23igs

I used to have the C6H with a 1700 and it really was smooth sailing for me. My RAM was running at 2933 pretty quickly (and it was some terrible Hynix stuff 2x16GB) after a few updates but before I had no major issues as long as my RAM was at 2400 or so.

Got pretty lucky on AM4, especially compared to X99 with the 5820k I had. Loved that chip to bits, but the MSI board I had was an absolute nightmare.

ID: hc1tg4z

I am still rocking an R1600.

ID: hc1xkhz

R5 1600 gang rise up!

ID: hc1wcg9

& me on quad core q9400 :kekwlaugh:

ID: hc1vjnz

What is often overlooked,l is that with ryzen we didn’t just have a new platform. AMD introduced right away, a brand new architecture, on a practically brand new socket (minus a fringe APU that came before), that used a brand new chipset and a memory type which AMD used for the first time (DDR4). Surprisingly smooth launch all things considered. This time it will be less complex.

ID: hc1ij7d

Yuo will wait a year.

ID: hc1jcdi

Or possibly more, depending on how things turn out. We will see if Zen 4 is promising enough by the time people get their hands on the hardware and start experimenting on it.

ID: hc1jtwj

I was about to say I agree but then realized that my 2500k lasted nearly 8 years, and this 5900x I have now is likely good got another 5-8 years lol.

ID: hc1w2pr

My plan is to do a final upgrade via Ryzen 3D on AM4, and then give AM5 a year or two to settle before building a new computer entirely.

ID: hc255jg

Smart plan. I just did that with a 5950X. I'm good for a few years.

ID: hc23606

First gen DDR5 memory controllers probably won't be amazing either, given history and the breadth of changes.

ID: hc2g5r0

DDR5 will suck at the start anyways. Overpriced, piss poor speeds and slow timings. The first one will be extra bad due to the global supply chain shitshow.

Its kind of a rule when new ram architecture comes out. It will get much better over time.

Who remembers DDR4 1866 at garbage CL17 or something awful like that? Or DDR3 800? DDR2 400? How about Rambust! (We dodged a bullet there, PS fuck intel)

ID: hc2scoa

How about Rambust! (We dodged a bullet there, PS fuck intel)

Except we didn't, we're still paying them...

ID: hc2r00l

AM4 wasn't really the problem, it was the fact that Zen was a completely new architecture.

Zen 4/AM5 will have some new platform issues, but it shouldn't be worse than the Zen 1 launch.

I'd still not be a Day 0 purchaser though.

ID: hc2wr49

Every early adopter in tech hardware are basically beta testers.

But yeah, i'll wait for at least a year before I even look at it AM5, but its still way off for that.

AM4 will have its last dance with the new Cpus coming with VCACHE.

AM4, for all its early woes, there has never been a platform like it before.

ID: hc2xxln

I jumped early for x570. Never going to do that again. The CPU was completely fine, but I went through my motherboard within 6 months.

ID: hc3apj6

Don't forget though, AM4 at the start mostly had issues because AMD didn't have a good relationship with board partners. AM3+ came out in 2011 and it wasn't till 2017 that we saw AM4. Not to mention, AMD had to re-do microcode and such for a totally new architectural approach. I suspect AM5 won't have nearly as many issues this time, especially since AMD has been making new chipsets and platforms for a while now, the architecture won't be drastically different and board partners have stepped up their game on the AMD side.

3 : Anonymous2021/09/08 13:28 ID: hc21cs7

"By the way, it’s interesting that AMD now also refers to the 16-core internally as an APU, which hides a graphics unit in the I/O die."

I realize this is common knowledge among us enthusiasts at this point, but I think it is really something that now AMD is bringing APUs for all especially in a world plagued by GPU scalping and shortages even for entry-level basic functional video (e.g. GT 1030).

ID: hc21ytb

Could be very useful for business use. Most office employees don't need an impressive graphics but they could use a strong CPU.

ID: hc2d2ks

Exactly. That's a reason AMD can be a harder sell among businesses because it means either downgrading from AMD's faster CPUs to slower and core count-limited APUs or paying extra for a basic GPU which represents more maintenance and support (e.g. another failure point, additional driver to maintain, etc.).

ID: hc3tzzk

also they'll be able to play cs:go at decent framerates.

ID: hc3vgaa

I got a 4750U I think it is in my work laptop and it's so nice when you have a lot of bloated apps running you need for work!

ID: hc21ws5

I would love nothing more than a super powerful ~500 dollar APU that gave me ~60 series graphics performance. I'd throw it in a small case, water cool it, and call it. Upgrade every 3 years or so and likely just upgrade to that baller APU every time and call it.

ID: hc37srw

Any APU that had a large, powerful GPU on it would be significantly sized and probably cost more than you expect. And there's still the problem of bandwidth. DDR5 will be faster, but it's not gonna be 'next gen graphics' level faster.

ID: hc2ty1z

Intel's Beast Canyon NUC with Vega graphics and HBM2 on board, basically what you described with graphics performance similar to the GTX 1060 3GB version.

We definitely need such a device with a Zen 4 processor and RDNA2 in it

ID: hc2is8k

I'm wondering about the configuration. But yea, any basic video output device would be nice.

4 : Anonymous2021/09/08 12:59 ID: hc1xv2h

Do we know if Zen3D is AM4 or AM5?

ID: hc1y8vx

Afaik: We dont, but likely AM4

ID: hc1yske

Here's hoping! I want to eventually skip from the 3900x to the 5950XT (the in-stock gods be willing) or whatever they're going to call it.

ID: hc2uhlu

They could have versions for both if the past indicates anything. There are bulldoze

APUs that are compatible with AM4 for example.

ID: hc255q0

Rumors are on a zen3d refresh of Zen3 either xt series or 6000

5 : Anonymous2021/09/08 11:35 ID: hc1p4rc

Isn't there a new Zen3+ coming out soon? I've not upgraded to 5900x due to that.

ID: hc1pw6b

That should basically be the 5000 series but with 3D V-Cache, right? Hopefully all the CPU's will get upgraded and not just the 5950XT and 5600XT like I've heard..

ID: hc35zsh

the cache is pretty huge, almost 50% the size of an entire CCD, so just from a wafer allocation perspective it'll probably end up on high end chips. the way they described it made it seem like they're planning on highend and enterprise chips.

ID: hc1tqkq

I just want to know if these vcache CPUs are definitely coming to AM4, and when. Getting a bit pissed about not having a final confirmation.

[edit]Why is this controversial? Can you provide proof these CPUs are coming to AM4?

ID: hc2ulj2

I'd love to know too. It's tough if you want an upgrade as both intel alder lake and zen 3d are sort of in a "probably coming pretty soon" state. I bought a 5600x for gaming but soon my workload shifted and now I really want more cores for simulation and rendering. I'm still going to keep waiting tho. Not happy with current zen 3 memory latency in some gaming applications.

6 : Anonymous2021/09/08 18:18 ID: hc36gbf

The rig at present is not hard up. Better to sit on the sidelines as DDR5 will be expensive which is typical with each new generation of memory.

Better graphics card is more of interest at the moment

7 : Anonymous2021/09/08 17:17 ID: hc2xmfc

Usually the machine translated articles of Igor's are passibly understandable (even if he's also wrong a lot, though usually not in processor technical specifics), but this one is really bad, and is likely going to lead to extra confusion due to all the ambiguity in the translation, as it gets misinterpreted and misquoted by other media sources.

But it seems he's just now taken a look at the power details from the gigabyte hack that were leaked weeks ago. Just like Zen2 & Zen3, Zen4 Tctl doesn't use an offset (that ended with Zen+) built into Tctl anymore. That was expected, though he seems surprised by it.

8 : Anonymous2021/09/08 13:18 ID: hc2040l

I run a 5800x so I think I'm good for now.

9 : Anonymous2021/09/08 17:31 ID: hc2zmp6

First the Slime gets Raphael then AMD.


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