[Digital Foundry] Can the Slowest PS5 SSD Upgrade Run Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart?

1 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:04 ID: pslsu1
[Digital Foundry] Can the Slowest PS5 SSD Upgrade Run Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart?
2 : Anonymous2021/09/21 17:21 ID: hdqopmk


Saved you a click/watch.

ID: hdtfsjz

Load times are roughly in line with the internal SSD. Frame rates are near identical. The only place it falls down against the SN850 is when copying games to it from the internal drive.

ID: hdridhe

You the champ

ID: hdtq3dm

Worth watching though. Good video.

ID: hdu2eay

It's always worth watching DF though. Also why not give them some clicks so they get revenue? They're good guys.

3 : Anonymous2021/09/21 18:05 ID: hdqv6vl

basically the PS5 SSD wasnt even close to being maxxed out on Ratchet and Clank…incredible years ahead

ID: hds4u5u

Well fuck, if it got maxed out after it's first year I'd say the system is complete garbage

ID: hds6a2m

Either that or Insomniac managed to pull off something no other dev has ever done in pretty much the history of console hardware.

When one of Insomniac's dev's had an interview with DF he said before even thinking of starting to use even higher speeds of SSD they need to redesign their engine as it was already bottlenecking them with R&C.

4 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:29 ID: hdqh08a

Yeah Insomniac even said they arent using the full potential of the PS5 SSD. Not sure if they addressed it anywhere but the extra SSD has the benefit of not having to allocate resources for the OS and other operations

ID: hdqk4as

I'm not sure if it's addressed in this video but I think Rich mentioned it in the last PS5 SSD video they did

ID: hdqvpad

In the Insomniac developer interview (with John), the developer mentioned that they’re not using the full extent of the SSD.

They specifically mentioned something along the lines of how they couldn’t program their engine to fully utilize the SSD (most likely due to time and beginner with the new hardware).

ID: hdsa0lw

He mentioned it briefly in the video. He said something along the lines of "Since this game has come out so early in the PS5's lifecycle Insomniac doesn't use the PS5's abilities to it's max". So 5-10 years from now when devs are pushing the PS5 to it's limit that m.2 drive they used could be complete shit

5 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:34 ID: hdqhtqm

The SSD is only one part of the equation, and its not even the most important. The PS5's i/o system is still at work. Unfortunately, many people will come to an unfounded conclusion after watching the DF video and assume a lower spec SSD alone, such as what you might have with PC, would be enough to run Rift Apart. Nevertheless, this was a cool tech test from DF.

ID: hdqknb2

Thank you. The test is limited to the raw SSD speed. The PS5's custom unit is lifting the performance of all 3 SSDs tested. Digital Foundry acknowledge this briefly at 13:41

"It is important to note that storage on the next generation of machines isn't just about the solid state drive itself, but also the dedicated hardware decompression tech that works alongside it. This effectively doubles the bandwidth of the drive and is just as essential to the PlayStation 5 as the SSD itself."

ID: hdrpv2h

The twitter post of this video is pure cancer. People are complete idiots and twitter is their cesspool.

ID: hdqxkrx

Lol. People who think R&C is some incredibly demanding game that couldn’t run on on a pc are crazy. It’s not even close to utilizing PS5 hardware as far as ssd and IO speeds, and honestly I doubt any game ever does. Activision themselves already said that the streaming bandwidth for R&C is software limited not hardware limited. This game is not demanding enough to benchmark the hardware. It was a nifty game design trick but this sub is so overhyping the technical demands of the rifts it’s crazy.

ID: hdrrhup

I didn't make a claim one way or the other as to whether it can run on pc. The purpose of my comment was for people to avoid coming to conclusions for questions that this DF test wasn't designed to answer.

ID: hdricfe

is convinced rachet and clank is unable to be played on pc. They always forget that games are made on pc lol

ID: hdr276i

Reality is that console's weak RT power will be a bottleneck sooner than transfer speeds for PC.

In a way it already is a huge problem.

6 : Anonymous2021/09/21 19:11 ID: hdr4ouh

To save you a click: yes, it can. Props to insomniac games.

ID: hdrx6cp


7 : Anonymous2021/09/21 18:26 ID: hdqy53c

thing is, in 2023/2024 when the next-generation of PS5 games releases, they may use MORE bandwith than Rift apart, and going with a slower NVME may be an issue further down the line.

They said minimum 5.5Gb/s for me It's crystal clear, but of course I understand that DF wants to try this, it's still interesting, just, don't base yourself ONLY on rift apart, that could be a big mistake.

ID: hdr3ggr

Right. I would definitely not see this as an endorsement of buying and using such a slow SSD, it's just an interesting test.

8 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:07 ID: hdqdv0b

This is more in depth than The Verge's brief testing and is considerably the slowest 4.0 drive you can purchase. It's essentially an SN550 (low tier 3.0 drive) tweaked to run over a 4.0 interface. The SN750 SE has no DRAM and the PS5 lacks HMB, plus the read speeds are in 3.0 territory

ID: hdrr46y

The PS5 lacks HMB because it has 4GB of SD RAM for write cache from what I understood from teardowns.

ID: hdry7ww

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that exclusively for the internal SSD? Or can add-in drives access that DRAM?

9 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:22 ID: hdqfyz5

Very interesting video. I wonder how slow an SSD you could install into the PS5 (if it existed) before Ratchet and Clank breaks.

ID: hdqyfjf

I’m guessing really slow. I don’t think R&C is that demanding.

ID: hdqz0mn

Yep, that'd be a really neat test. I'm surprised there's even a 4.0 drive this slow to begin with, though. Seems like it's a total waste and only for marketing, as the controller and flash itself would have been entirely fine with a 3.0 interface.

10 : Anonymous2021/09/21 17:02 ID: hdqm0om

The built in SSD in the PS5 isn’t special, the entire I/O system combined is what makes it good. That why 3rd party SSDs are beating it in a lot of loading tests…

The M.2 installed SSDs have access to the same exact decompression hardware that the built in SSD does.

11 : Anonymous2021/09/21 23:12 ID: hds24rp

Isn't it the I/O architecture built into the PS5 doing all the heavy lifting?

ID: hdtg9a2

Yes, but the point is that you don't need the theoretical 9GB/s compressed speeds to run R&C.

2.5GB/s turned into 4.5 or whatever the Kraken decompression chip can do to it is already enough.

Aka the stock 5.5GB/s ssd in the PS5 can probably handle R&C fine even without the Kraken decompression.

12 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:48 ID: hdqjz0h

I think this is a really interesting topic I never thought of.

But, now that I think about it, the drive may be more than enough for 3rd party games, since it is +800mbps faster than XSX|S SSD, and 3rd party devs will target that.

We can just use internal for PS Studios or games that heavily take advantage of PS5 SSD.

13 : Anonymous2021/09/21 21:06 ID: hdrle52

I'm disappointed that they still haven't tested the SSD at full/near full capacity. SSDs tend to lose performance when they start filling up.

ID: hdru64n

It affects basically only writes, which are irrelevant for games

14 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:37 ID: hdqi8dm

Useless testing......yes RnC is utilizing SSD I/O to switch between worlds but the biggest question is, to what extent?? At which bandwidth?? PS5 can handle 9GB/s, but I hardly doubt RnC is utilizing even 2GB/s of bandwidth because it's a very early game in this gen plus it's running on an engine designed for PS4 hardware......so it will run just fine even if it's utilizing 2GB/s of bandwidth as the SSD they are testing had 3.2GB/s bandwidth and its the slowest SSD you can utilize on PS5....so this test doesn't tell anything other than RnC isn't utilizing PS5 I/O to its fullest....we will know the difference as we move towards the second half of this generation, definitely not now

ID: hdqjgc2

Right? People don't seem to get that game dev cycles are long, r&c dev most likely started before ps5 tech was finalized. Of course they'd be very conservative in how much throughput their game would need on an hypothetical hardware.

Better avoid this sub for like a week I guess. This video is gonna get quoted and blown way outta proportion by clickbaity outlets. Hell, maybe the fan favorite techtuber austin will pitch in with his wisdom as well. Lol

ID: hdqkax9

Could also have something to do with the fact that Rift Apart was the poster child for why the PS5 needs a super fast SSD.

I mean, I don't doubt they it will be used more fully later in the generation. But Rift Apart wasn't exact sold as "Essentially a PS4 developed game that barely takes advantage of the PS5's SSD".

ID: hdqk1c0

Yea they kinda address that in the video. Although a good portion of the focus is on R&C, they also test other games and transfer speeds while also discussing the implications of getting a slower drive and how things can be different in the future.

ID: hdqn2iu

yes RnC is utilizing SSD I/O to switch between worlds but the biggest question is, to what extent?? At which bandwidth?? PS5 can handle 9GB/s, but I hardly doubt RnC is utilizing even 2GB/s of bandwidth

a switch like RnC uses just can't use much bandwidth since the PS5 only has so much memory that can and needs to be swapped.

if you want to use all the bandwidth of the SSD you need to be swapping textures as you move the camera around. all Ram should be used as working ram rather than the old idea of work ram and storage ram.

ID: hdqxtm6

They literally discuss this in the video lol

ID: hds0rdi

Well then by that logic, might as well get a cheap, low spec drive and only replace it in three years when problems MIGHT start to occur and properly specced drives are cheap.

ID: hdqrtky

We will see the full SSD potential probably from Spider-Man 2 when that releases I would think.

ID: hdqy9f2

I doubt any game fully utilizes it tbh. I think the games will be gpu limited before they max out the data bandwidth.

15 : Anonymous2021/09/22 04:35 ID: hdt4bxd

Holy shit the absolute salt from Xbox users in here. Hell, I have a Series X as well and I don't understand the commenters on here bashing. Lol

Guys, I'd be less concerned about the PS5's SSD speeds and more concerned about the fact that I've only turned my Series X on a few times since it's purchase...in order to play old games. Still waiting on those AAA exclusive heavy hitters to come. Any day now....any day now. All that power and it has yet to show its muscle with any software.

ID: hdttor5

The custom SSD tech in PS5 drives platform warriors crazy. They can't give Sony credit for anything. It has to be discredited at all costs.

16 : Anonymous2021/09/21 16:14 ID: hdqevym

Haven't watched since it feels like clickbait, but I'm guessing yes? Insomniac themselves claimed it was just scratching the surface of the SSD tech, and considering the game was primarily in development before the ps5 even came out, it def not utilizing it completely. The point is to be future proof when games start utilising the entire SSD speed + kraken compression, increasing the throughput to upto 20gb/s. Surely having 3gb/s ssds will run into issues then.

ID: hdqf8de

Yea maybe not the best title, but the video goes more in depth than just testing ratchet and clank. Still worth the watch imo

ID: hdqg9fi

Cool, will check it out.

The problem with such videos/video titles is the toxic environment it creates. Now the fan boys of the other plastic box will start claiming it's all marketing gimmick (like the comments already show) which will throw fanboys of this plastic box into frenzy. Same shit that happened with Austin's video. Just unnecessary at this point tbh. But I understand, they gotsta make that money.

ID: hdqhem0

Question: since Cerny said that throughput can reach 20gb/s does that mean an SSD at that speed will be compatible with ps5 also since the ps5 can compress 8/9gb/s will a 9000MB/s SSD be compatible with ps5?


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