The L3 cache issue is more than latency related?

1 : Anonymous2021/10/15 08:35 ID: q8k3u7
The L3 cache issue is more than latency related?
2 : Anonymous2021/10/15 08:54 ID: hgpugri

there should be a fix next week, wait and see.

ID: hgq7zmg

Hopefully it fully fixes it should match windows 10 performance numbers within margin of error.

ID: hgqixf4

Why would they make a Windows 11 then and advertise it for its performance.

It should exceed Windows 10 numbers, not match them.

ID: hgqlg9q

Well the fix has been on the dev build already, should see a fix soon for the release build. my 5800x performs exactly the same on 11 if not slightly better in some cases and I’ve been on it since August. I’ve been pretty impressed with 11 despite all the hate it’s more or less a reskinned windows 10.

ID: hgqe6bc

fingers crossed - seems they're on this pretty quick. Sucks that it wasn't worked out sooner (Microsoft spending more time appeasing Intel by the looks of things) but these issues should be ironed out soon enough, a minor inconvenience and with any new OS release it's pretty much to be expected that it won't be perfect and will get better over time, but still dropping the ball.

ID: hgpwlt8

I doubt it

ID: hgpzyye

You can doubt it , but they officially stated a bugfix in October

A Windows update is in development to address this issue with expected availability in October of 2021.

I'm not sure where it may have been said (AMD or microsoft on twitter and what not ) that the release is gonna be next week specifically , but hey.. *fingers crossed*..

For me it hasn't been a dealbreaker as of now ... I'm more frustrated by the useless app launcher and buggy taskbar. But i would like to welcome back any performance i may have lost ...

ID: hgri2ss

It's fixed with today's Beta/Release Preview build

3 : Anonymous2021/10/15 09:29 ID: hgpwsae
4 : Anonymous2021/10/15 17:30 ID: hgrgwf7

New Windows Insider Beta/RP build this evening - top of the list of fixes is the L3 cache latency issue. Build 22000.282 is available now

ID: hgs6klq

Yeah that's the dev build from when they actually fixed the issue 2 weeks before announcing the final release date (so basically a month ago), and then still releasing it anyway, knowing this was in the release build.

MS either didn't want to be bothered to delay the release by a few weeks, or (less likely, but commonly speculated) they intentionally are dragging their feet to try to give ADL's launch the appearance of even more of an edge than it potentially would otherwise have.

ID: hgsfdgy

Or hear me out, they want users on the preview and beta channels to test all the fixes (not just that one) before releasing it to everyone. It's just how software works. You don't want to rush a fix that could lead to more problems in the future.

5 : Anonymous2021/10/15 16:50 ID: hgrb4dv

Windows 11 seems faster to me, and I have a 5900X even with the increased L3 latency:

ID: hgrw3gz

5950X user here. I agree my speeds on Win 11 are better in games and benchmarks.. Dunno :/

ID: hgs1ojc

Well, that's the thing about speed. It doesn't matter whether or not it seems faster. What matters is whether or not it actually is faster.

ID: hgs66ql

Well, 3rd level cache latency is only one very small piece to a system's performance. That's the thing about synthetic benchmarks, they often don't represent real world performance.

ID: hgsg2d8

I would argue the opposite is better if we need to choose one. Feeling faster is better than being faster if you can't notice it. But ideally we want both though.

ID: hgsfxj8

Without benchmarking with AIDA my games are running around 5 fps faster than with Win10. Doom 2016, The Division 2 and Warzone. The latter actually has like 10+ higher peaks than before.

Programs performance on handbrake, office suite, ACDSee, Affinity Designer is as snappier and fast as before. Haven't seen any differences.

Not to say there's an issue because it's officially confirmed but my day to day usage has not been impacted, which is good. I'll test and benchmark properly once both fixes are out.

ID: hgtabup

Yeah I’ve had roughly the same experience thus far. At least for those suffering this issue, a fix seems imminent.

6 : Anonymous2021/10/15 11:55 ID: hgq8bap

Yes, it also affects bandwidth. It's going to be fixed soon so don't worry.

7 : Anonymous2021/10/15 11:37 ID: hgq6jrc

You beat me on latency, but I have worse RWC speeds.

8 : Anonymous2021/10/15 13:27 ID: hgqih1g

Is there any information about what is causing it? Is it not utilising the full speeds or is somethig slowing it down? What programming issue may cause this problem? I just would like to understand this problem in a logical way. (if there is any specific known issue) I'm just curious.

ID: hgr0o6y

My wild guess would be the scheduler is causing cores from one CCX to try and access the L3 cache from another CCX. The core to core latency between CCXs on Ryzen is much higher than the core to core latency within a CCX.

It's probably a side-effect of trying to optimize the Windows scheduler to work with heterogeneous cores.

ID: hgriisb

The 5600x and 5800x are also affected so I don't think that's the issue, although some do have two ccx's most still have one.

ID: hgrc48y

Oh ok. Thanks for your explanation. Seems like this might be the reason.

9 : Anonymous2021/10/15 11:18 ID: hgq4v76

If latency increases so will bandwidth drop. Nothing new.

ID: hgrlmw0

Generally, yes. But these metrics arent totally connected. GPU memory, for example, sacrifices latency for higher bandwidth.

10 : Anonymous2021/10/15 15:50 ID: hgr28ex

I think MS and Intel developed W11 completely together and totally left AMD out in the cold, which is why we are seeing so many issues for AMD and pretty much none for Intel. I think once the new Intel CPU's come out like the 12900K it will more than likely destroy any AMD CPU and that includes the 5950X. Actually dare I say that even the lower end new Intel CPU's will beat most AMD CPU's mainly because this whole W11 was designed around Intel and not AMD in the slightest.

ID: hgrspr4

You’re probably right, and that’s some serious Fuckery. Time to bail completely to Linux!

ID: hgs2qct

Manjaro KDE baby. Get that smooth Vulkan performance!

11 : Anonymous2021/10/15 15:53 ID: hgr2phi

Any actual software affected by this? FPS etc?

ID: hgshbow

It's been officially acknowledged by both AMD and Microsoft so there's real impact on some workloads. In my case, all of my day to day programs and games have been as fast or a bit faster in Win11 than Win10.

ID: hgs1fpx

Yes. Obviously.

12 : Anonymous2021/10/15 19:13 ID: hgrvzr5

Oh wow, this information has flown under the radar for me. I was benchmarking games all day yesterday and was wondering why most games were performing so poor compared to my W10 benchmarks. Well, this explains it!

13 : Anonymous2021/10/16 07:41 ID: hgu5efv

The 19th October they will fix it, this problem is only in W11

14 : Anonymous2021/10/15 13:36 ID: hgqjo47

Beta Test - OK

Final release - BUG no present in Beta


ID: hgqv4sv

You've never developed software, huh?

ID: hgr3g6u

Tfw you reformat your code for readability and somehow break everything you've ever known

ID: hgqy1s5

Actually it was more like:

Beta test > received multiple bug reports > patched bugs > tested patch in dev channel > patch works > okay, now release the known broken build to release channel anyway, because a fix will be coming soon enough, even though the fix was already created and verified before the final release date was announced.

This was a conscious decision by MS to release it anyway, knowing the problem existed with plans to patch it a month or so after release using the build that was in the dev channel at the time of official release.

ID: hgqx4xd

Because bugs happen. Windows is an insanely huge software project with so many teams working on it. It's running on everything from PC's to ATM's to big enterprises.

Issues are bound to happen, if you worry about it use windows 10 till they've ironed out these bugs in Windows 11. Otherwise it might simply be something you don't notice unless you're staring at benchmarks or the FPS counter.

15 : Anonymous2021/10/15 13:51 ID: hgqllzr

People gonna start testing some games and programs for L3 bug or is AIDA64 just gonna run or lives till it gets fixed?

16 : Anonymous2021/10/15 12:02 ID: hgq8x1y


Keep Windows in a container where it belongs.

ID: hgqcnsy

Tech vegan

ID: hgs7gsi

Nothing wrong with being vegan

ID: hgqdw7r

Gotta love that you're being downvoted, but Windows has now been relegated to virtual machines in my house and is only used for compatibility with random pieces of software. I won't let Windows touch my hardware or have direct access to my network again.

ID: hgqhh4q

It is a little funny how we went from "SR-IOV or nothing" to "it's ok I can't use my 4 year old CPU".

But... I don't blame them. There's way less cognitive strain in dismissing things out of hand than worrying about missing out on something different. That stubbornness is what kept this sub going during the years of Intel dominance, and it certainly won't make unfucked Windows gaming containers go away.

ID: hgqdmq5


17 : Anonymous2021/10/15 15:56 ID: hgr35ls

I know i got it...

18 : Anonymous2021/10/15 17:03 ID: hgrd0t3

Yes, this is 5600x on Win11.. See the read/write/copy.

I think this will be noticed most in the esports titles pushing very high fps numbers rather than modern/AAA in my limited testing, Warzone, BF4 & BFV run fine.


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