L3 Cache still bad on Ryzen 3700X, my numbers jumps from 150 Gb/s to 400 gb/s. On Windows 10 this thing full stability.

1 : Anonymous2021/10/25 11:36 ID: qferpm
L3 Cache still bad on Ryzen 3700X, my numbers jumps from 150 Gb/s to 400 gb/s. On Windows 10 this thing full stability.
2 : Anonymous2021/10/25 12:19 ID: hhz6sch

I think there is something wrong with AIDA64 and/or Windows 11

Windows 11 22000.282 updated chipset drivers, AIDA64 6.50.5800 - results are all over the place

(all 4 runs are from Win11 run after run), look at L3 write 281, 327, 241, 126...

Windows 10 - margin of error, when i compare results from 4 months ago - margin of error and it was with different AIDA version...

ID: hi0clsy

One thing to note is that after installing the chipset driver pack, you need to change to another power plan, then back to (Balanced for Zen3, Ryzen Balanced for Zen+/Zen2), because the power plan driver changes don't actually take effect while you're on the plan it just updated. I had forgotten to do this initially and was still seeing tons of variance, as work was being assigned to any core instead of the best cores.

That eliminated the result variances with W11 for me, so now run to run it's consistent, but also still consistently slower than W10 (11.6ns instead of 10.3ns for L3, 2.6ns instead of 2.4ns for L2, and L1 latency is the same at 0.8ns), but bandwidth is still far worse than W10 for L1 and L2, though L3 bandwidth is normal now.

So despite the updates, it's still a bit of a mess. It's far better, that's for sure, but it's not where it should be, either.

ID: hi0wb9v

That is what i did on a fresh updated install of Windows 11 and first chipset drivers (other than MS basic ones).

3 : Anonymous2021/10/25 13:11 ID: hhzcb8t

Same on 5600x with latest Aida64 & CPPC patch + 22000.282, run to run L3 bandwidth on all 3 range from 160GB/s to 450GB/s but its horribly inconsistent, the latency gives a consistent 11-12ns at the very least, but I no longer hit 10ns, on windows 10 it was solid 500GB/s & 10ns latency.

ID: hi0zycp

It's just a mistake though, the L3 shoukd be performing the same.

4 : Anonymous2021/10/25 14:53 ID: hhzpf1t

Has anyone actually documented real world issues instead of just running AIDA over and over again?

My main issue with 11 is that Resident Evil 2 runs like crap, which is noticeable to me because it was always my rock solid test game when tinkering because of how consistent it used to be. But I'm not seeing that same regression in other titles.

ID: hi0cdkw

I've been having 0 issues, even before the patch. Performance in the games I got have been without stutters or slowdowns. Maybe it's specific cases, maybe we're relying too much on benchmarks and confirmation bias, maybe it's only a few people who doesn't register problems, who knows really at this point for sure?

ID: hi0i708

Fresh install or upgrade?

ID: hi15kdp

I've been running various Win11 Insider builds since it was available, on an upgrade on top of Win10 that has been running for years. I'm running a Ryzen 3700X on a B350 motherboard, 32GB RAM, RTX 2080, running games natively at 3440 x 1440 @ 100Hz. I'm having zero issues with my system outside of Gigabyte software not keeping my fan curve on reboot, and having to reapply the profile each time.

I don't disbelieve people are having issues, but I 'm taking the time comment because it seems like it might be a case of people looking for a problem more so than it having a large impact.

ID: hi01njj

I’ve got a 3060Ti, 3800X and 64GB ram at 3200mhz, the only game i’ve played, BFV has this constant sutter, and sometimes the FPS goes down to the 40’s on a 2560x1080 monitor.

ID: hhzxjzn

Yes. Sometimes during heavy desktop usage it will go a bit limp for a few secs now and then

ID: hi06rf7

I had random frame drops playing almost any game, CPU frequencies on all cores locked to ~4.3GHz, voltage locked to 1.35V, and temperatures hitting 100°C.

Downgraded back to Windows 10 and all the issues went away. This was before the Windows 11 patch was released, on a 5800X.

5 : Anonymous2021/10/25 16:15 ID: hi013mf


ID: hi0dw6n


ID: hi0xkz9


6 : Anonymous2021/10/25 12:01 ID: hhz51c6

Update AIDA. You are using a version that doesn't support 11 and shows incorrect L3 info. There was a big ordeal about it recently. It's just a mistake though, the L3 shoukd be performing the same.

ID: hhzf22s

No Sir, even with latest AIDA64 and latest patches and chipset drivers, the L3 bandwidth benchmark in AIDA64 shows numbers all over the place, with values randomly going from 200GB to 800GB.
The actual system performances in synthetic benchmarks and videogames are back to normal though.

ID: hhzjz24

6.50 shows same results for me in 11 as I see in 10. Their changelog even notates this.

ID: hhzedvj

Latest update doesn't change anything, L3 cache speeds are still all over the place.

ID: hhzfsbk


ID: hi0hbnk

That's not true. Here is my benchmark .

As you can see I'm using a version dated 2019 and my benchmarks have been consistent

7 : Anonymous2021/10/25 13:43 ID: hhzg7q5

This is because AIDA doesn't know cache's current power state and only benchmarks a fixed cache size (the one it expects your CPU to have). When cache is in lower power modes, it decreases it's size and AIDA's benchmark uses more memory than the cache can fit and it starts benchmarking RAM instead.

You're basically benchmarking half of L3 cache + RAM, that's why results are worse. The cache speed is the same and always was. The size is what's changed by the power mode.

This is also why benchmarks such as Cinebench which should've seen a big hit in performance because of that issue have basically have 0 difference between W10 and W11, since when you do those benchmarks the cache isn't in low power mode.

That also explains why some users reported that having something heavy running in the background while you do the AIDA benchmark gave you better results before patches (I experienced that myself actually).

ID: hhzhewv

When cache is in lower power modes, it decreases it's size

Any source for this ?

I ask because I actually tried to disable the cache low power states by enabling the Uncore OC and disabling DF C-states in my bios, but still the L3 bandwidth values in AIDA64 were all over the place.

ID: hi08d7l

makes 0 sense, sisosft sandra that uses max threads / AVX and runs for longer period will also report these random L3 numbers

If this was the case, Windows 10 would also be affected by low power state and we know Windows 10 is fine.

ID: hi0e5qu

I don't know how Sandra tests L3 cache throughput, but I would assume that it doesn't have any heavy load in the background while doing it, because it would impact the results and so the low power mode fuckup happens.

Why would it be the case on Windows 10 if it's clearly an issue introduced by changes in Windows 11? After all, OS is the thing that does most of the power management.

It's just an assumption of what the issue is, although it does seem to me that this is pretty close to what actually happened.

ID: hi0hoy6

I'm inclined to agree with you, however people have documented a fairly significant (case by case) performance delta between W10 and W11 in applications and games.

Could this have been more affected by the CPPC state issue rather than L3$?

ID: hi0mtwx

Eh, I would guess that overall Windows 11 introduces so much changes that figuring out what specifically has impact on performance is pretty hard, especially since we can't even know what's actually changed.

For me, the difference between Win11 release build and the fixed one + chipset driver in Cinebench is +3 points and basically none in gaming. I would guess it would more noticeable in the single core benchmark though.

8 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:19 ID: hi0ajfk

Is AIDA able to directly measure that bandwidth and latency? Or is it inferring the results by measuring other things?

9 : Anonymous2021/10/25 19:43 ID: hi0vwk3

I respect all you early W11 adopters.

ID: hi1bmlq

Yeah I'm staying Win10 until SP1 lands.

10 : Anonymous2021/10/25 18:08 ID: hi0hmdy

my benchmarks have been consistent, have not seen the L3 going lower than 440 GB/s and latency never higher than 10.5

11 : Anonymous2021/10/25 18:20 ID: hi0jdmf

From a comment in this thread:

Microsoft just issued the CU that applies to the Dev channel build--Build # is now 22483.1011, for those interested--and YES, it fixes the L3 AIDA64 bug!

Take it with a grain of salt, as that windows build changelog provides no mention of anything related, but maybe it will be fixed eventually.

12 : Anonymous2021/10/25 16:27 ID: hi02zdv

Increasingly ready to switch to Linux full-time. With steam/proton making big leaps this year I imagine it won't be long before most of my library is supported.

13 : Anonymous2021/10/25 14:19 ID: hhzktmt

L3 bandwidth is still completely broken, changes a lot every test run and much lower compared to Windows 10 even with all latest updates installed.

I've heard that may be related to SVM enabled in BIOS, but it worked fine with it enabled in Windows 10...

ID: hhzpqb9

I also tried with SVM and VBS both disabled, no change, values all over the place.

ID: hi05ref

On both Windows 10 and 11, if I have svm enabled if causes the base clock and ram/Infinity fabric to be misread. The bclk ends up reading about 98mhz or so, it's consistently reproducible.

This is using a Ryzen 5600x and asus Crosshair 7. I suspect it's something funny with the board, but who knows.

14 : Anonymous2021/10/25 16:18 ID: hi01kaa

Yall that know that aida isn't a reliable benchmark for anything right

15 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:26 ID: hi0bgq8

It's a nothingburger. AIDA is a notoriously unreliable benchmark.

Most of this whole ordeal is about AMD fans wanting to come up with new conspiracies, nothing more.

ID: hi1a328

Yeah, that's why AMD and Microsoft have been working to resolve this "conspiracy". Totally fake.

16 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:09 ID: hi090ls

Same. I'm on Beta channel and I've updated the chipset driver. Still, some apps and benchmarks are crashing. 3DMark can cause green screen just by looking up system info. Cinebench won't run multi-thread (single thread okay).

I'm actually thinking of doing a fresh reformat next week when I get the time. But right now, it's a mess since the last update.

17 : Anonymous2021/10/25 19:34 ID: hi0un81

did you try to install latest windows 11 AMD chipset drivers ?

18 : Anonymous2021/10/25 20:53 ID: hi16etu

Aida64 has known issues with L3 measurements. Just use other benchmarks

19 : Anonymous2021/10/25 14:07 ID: hhzjbl1

Do you install latest update to windows 11 + the latest chipset driver direct from AMD + use the latest AIDA? No? Try again.

21 : Anonymous2021/10/25 13:58 ID: hhzi3hs

I have the same R5 3600. The L3 is still not good enough.

22 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:28 ID: hi0bs6f

Yep, same. 3950x. Well, in my case I have been shit l3 write and copy every run I tried

23 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:31 ID: hi0cb5q

Yea I'm in no rush to switch to win11 and be an unpaid bug tester.

I genuinely don't see why I would want to switch, it doesn't seem to perform better than win10 and I just don't see the value add. It just seems like a way for Windows to shove Teams down our throats.

24 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:55 ID: hi0fqa2

Do make sure you run nothing in background while testing this, it can look high but it can consistently score lower while having peeks that look normal every 10 runs

25 : Anonymous2021/10/25 21:34 ID: hi1cc8j

I had similar numbers as well especially for write, i thought it was just my ram speed that effected performance which is 3200mhz but seeing you have 3600mhz with same latency confirms it

26 : Anonymous2021/10/25 22:34 ID: hi1ki7n

Genuinely: is performance bad on win 11 or is it just aida scores bugged?

All I ever see is bad Aida score threads without any reference to actual performance in windows 11.

27 : Anonymous2021/10/25 12:52 ID: hhza92q

You're running a beta BIOS.

28 : Anonymous2021/10/25 13:00 ID: hhzb2fm

Beta bios for gigabyte - more stabillity, than non beta. And beta bios for memory overcloking, non beta i have on 3600 Mhz BSOD and crashing games, when in beta i have stabillity in memory 🙂

29 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:34 ID: hi0cooy

Just do what I did on time: Sell anything AMD, wait for Alder Lake - win.

Don't support companies that go against competition, i.e increasing prices instead of lowering, like what they did with their broken 5000 series CPUs

Aaa but.. the 5950X is the king lol

30 : Anonymous2021/10/25 19:17 ID: hi0rzdo

hard pass

31 : Anonymous2021/10/25 19:18 ID: hi0s61n

AMD bots working hard here I love it

32 : Anonymous2021/10/25 21:21 ID: hi1ai7k

Don't support companies that go against competition

And he suggests we go Intel.... oh boy the smoothness of some fan boy brains.

33 : Anonymous2021/10/25 17:07 ID: hi08s4m

I'm going to go on a random speculation that there's some sort of security measure being applied to threads or memory that is not VBS.

Intel for example has memory latency regression and nobody can explain it, unless it's the same security measures active in Windows 11 vs Windows 10.

34 : Anonymous2021/10/25 22:23 ID: hi1j1hw

This is 1 test.... show use something else. THis is just digging a hole for AIDA and isnt telling of the actual story.

35 : Anonymous2021/10/25 22:28 ID: hi1jpcl

Just shows that Microsoft is still taking payments from Shintel to keep nerfing AMD performance. Guess it's time to transition fully to Linux.

36 : Anonymous2021/10/25 22:33 ID: hi1kgwz

Windows 10 isn't suffering from CPU issues currently. Only W11, and it has since been fixed.


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