- [Der8auer] 4152 hours of Ryzen Long Term Testing: We have Good and Bad News
Good news for everyone not pushing their CPUs to a razor's edge of stability.ID: hko27lk
Maybe, maybe not-
Could be that lower voltage is actually causing degradation. Roman didn't test across a range of voltages with similar power draw (lower voltage but higher amperage)
I'm hoping not, since I've been running on lower voltage+higher amperage...ID: hkoy24z
Uh, what? Degradation comes from power, i.e. Watts, not voltage nor amperage (operating within spec). With any given voltage and impedance, your amperage will exactly equal V/Z, there's no way to decouple it. AFAIK, no design exists, currently, that allow change of VRM parameters such that impedance changes beyond what would be caused by frequency fluctuations. If impedance doesn't change, then a given change in voltage will always represent a proportional change in power, thus using a lower voltage will always equal less power dissipation, therefore less degradation.ID: hkrgk15
I’m not an electrical engineer but this made zero sense.
I like how he has both an english and a german channel, great for practicing languagesID: hko9e7z
He had to create a separate channel because the youtube algorithm has a problem listing both language versions. And it probably messed with his monetization.ID: hkrlrwh
It was probably the best idea, tbh... The fact that youtube recommends me his German videos and I don't click on them because I can't speak German, but I do watch his English videos for sure messes up the algorithm. Youtube probably doesn't understand if I like this channel or not, since I don't watch like 50% of his uploads (actually, a bit more since there's some German only videos as well).ID: hkppvfy
True. But generally I find people from other countries speak better english than americans.. and im american..ID: hkq4ab1
Well, the point I tried to make is that I personally am able to get exposed to the German language with a topic that interests me, making it good for my languages :pID: hkrm3og
That happens with every language though... I am a native Spanish speaker and I do see non-natives speak and write WAY better Spanish than a lot of people I know that speak it natively... It probably has to do with people actively studying the language vs people that take it for granted because they simply learned it growing up but didn't bother actually studying it.ID: hknpp2p
And stake in a certain thermal paste company.ID: hko1sv1
which oneID: hko8m9k
great for making my friends think am insaneID: hkpvtd4
His English videos do way worse in views than his German ones so it's good he still bothers or we'd be missing out.
My take on his testing is these chips will be fine for the vast majority, like 99%, for their entire usable lifetimes. With and without over clocking.
So TLDR, he used 1.45v on each of his CPU's with heavy utilization for ~5 months, and saw only very minor degradation. Seems like the 5000 series is pretty voltage tolerant.ID: hknhpqr
This is useful, also the temperatures were over 70c, with 81c being the highest I believe.ID: hkpqv2l
Prime95 on air at 1.45V would certainly be much higher. He was already near 80, with Cinebench, at 1.26V.ID: hknllmw
5 and a half months is hardly a year. Don't extravagate.ID: hknngjl
My bad, for some reason I was thinking 4k hours are in a year, not 9k.ID: hko8yi6
Der8auer mentioned the 173 days continuous testing would represent something like 3 hours of gaming daily for 3-4 years. So the hardcore prime95 on over voltage will never happen on stock configs and shouldn’t really degrade in 3 years. For tinkerers and 24/7 users there is conclusion: it will degrade by some 40mV on a six core and needs to be bumped up by those margins to keep the manual overclock/ undervolt. The question is rather if the gains over lifetime should rather be left to the amd algorithms to keep the cpu in spec, which it will manage voltage by itself to run at spec frequencies, which it therefore shouldn’t let degrade. Let’s talk about zen3 in 2030 🙂ID: hkpr4rw
1600h of prime95 is pretty extreme in my books. That's much more than any CPU will ever take.
This kind of testing is invaluable because it's so often talked about between people and their personal experiences, while he tested 3 at the same time and recorded the results properly in advance. And released it publically in an open and transparent way. Where as if we discuss degradation here.. we could be talking about a CPU from 5 years ago, with no numbers recording.. going off of our impression or memory of what happened.
It's not a perfect test but it does give you a ballpark figure of what to expect. This kind of degradation tallies pretty similar with the degradation I have experienced in the last 10-15 years with Intel. It's probably slightly better actually, he used higher loads than I've ever used and used them at higher voltages. He didn't test the IMC, but I think this can also suffer, and this will affect CPU performance (the compromise between CPU OC and IMC OC).
I would say as a general rule.. be careful, weigh up the pros and cons for yourself and your own use case. But these 7nm's are fine. Also a decent mobo and high quality power supply helps. As well as good cooling and airflow in general and as well as avoiding the system becoming clogged with dust.
As he said in the video, if gaming is your priority and you rarely use 100% loads, you really don't have much to worry about. These chips are fine. They might even be better than fine. It'd be interesting to see an Intel comparison. Ryzen's power efficiency under all core loads and lower temps could also be helping with this. Modern Intel's under all core loads are like space heaters.
Oh nice, been waiting to see the results of this!
(Havent seen the vid)
Something to add to the discussion. Buildzoid suggested the l3 cache is less tolerant of voltages then the cores.
Just to note, he's testing stability with Cinebench.
This might spark some discussion.ID: hkng3ad
Not full stability, just enough of a test to show the CPU overclock behavior has changed due to the months long torture tests that it was stable for.ID: hknj4wy
No he’s not. He used it to test for degradation. The CPUs ran p95 for like 2000 hours.ID: hknmeza
Wasn't he looping the 3d mark cpu test for the whole ~6 months?ID: hknn7dd
This might spark some discussion.
While Cinebench isn't a good workload to determine absolute stability, each pass is so similar that voltage requirements doesn't change noticeably from day to day. Sure, Cinebench can probably run 50-100 MHz higher than Prime95 with AVX at the same voltage, but that applies to both the run he did back in may as well as the run he did now.ID: hknxopc
He did not use it to test stability just to check if there was degradation. On any cpu, if you lower the voltage as low as possible to pass cinebench you will alway fail prime 95 small fft. So they were not “stable” to start with.ID: hknyhik
I disagree with his whole testing methodology on this. He should have ran them at 1.45v for half a year on their highest stable prime95 frequency. Adding Cinebench to the test seems redundant and counter productive.
He mentions degradation a lot. I thought CPUs don’t degrade? Either they work or they don’t (and most failures are temperature related).
This just in, overclocking and continually pushing your CPU to max load will cause degradation over time... Wtf how is this news?ID: hkonajr
It shows the the voltage tolerance for zen3 is probably higher than what the oc community assumed. General recommendation was sub 1.3, maybe even 1.25, but this that chip little degradation (less than I expected at least) at 1.45.ID: hkon717
Yes but by how much and the time frame are important factors, and all we had up to now was anecdotal.