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[Gamers Nexus] NVIDIA & AMD Won't Like This: GPU Price Creep, Greed, and Generational Stagnation
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I’m so glad he made a video on this topic. It’s ridiculous that there are literally no price/performance improvements for mid-range GPUs, and even that there are no $200 MSRP cards, and that people are defending these megacorporations.
ID: gx2usbkID: gx1vf8pDid he talk about how container prices have gone up 300-400%?
Edit: Downvoted for pointing out that shipping costs alone have gone up 400% recently. News flash, that kills the low end market for everything.
ID: gx2wvu4Because it is effectively irrelevant for the situation outside of the ~100 market.
Let's say a large GPU box is 50x25x15 cm. A TEU container is about 2.4x2.5x6m. Leave a fair bit of room and you are very conservatively talking 1 000 cards per container.
The going rate is about 4k, which means $4 per card. Even with a 50% margin you are at $8 per card, and that is a) assuming an absurdly large box size and for most cards and b) assuming the current cost is the going rate, which is not going to be the case for a long time. It is extremely easy to say that this is not what is killing the lower end cards.
ID: gx29jwzBy phrasing it the way you did, it makes you look like you didn't watch the video.
ID: gx37yc4No, downvoted because we know this isn't new and has been going on for years way before container prices went up last year post pandemic breakout.
Edit: Just want to add you can still get Wish China crap for dirt cheap prices that are also shipped by container...
ID: gx3bmp41660 super was a big jump from the 970.
ID: gx3ud6jBut it was 2.5 generations later. The 1660S is basically a 980 Ti at 1/3 the MSRP without adjusting for inflation.
The 1660S is without a doubt the best Turning product. It just came out way too late.
ID: gx3eucpCreep
It funny when I compare some new mid GPUs to old generation, and I cannot find any difference in terms or performance. However, the power is way batter, but it s like buying Iphone. Nothing special, just the price.
ID: gx3nvhhAre people "defending" them? What's there to defend exactly?
They are multi-national corporations whose sole function is to act in the best interest of the group of people who entrusted them with their money (major shareholders). They don't owe anybody anything. Nor do they care what random people on the internet think.
And those corporations make one of the hottest products on the planet.
Did people sincerely expect them to voluntarily decide to earn less income? Do you voluntarily decide to get paid less money at your job?
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Lol they went easy on AMD, no mention of the joke called 5500XT?
ID: gx29ui3I swear I always forget that card exists.
ID: gx3mttzI will never forget… as I stare at my glowing MSI 5500XT everyday that I now can’t replace because of the shortage.
ID: gx2ohr2If no one hears the joke, did they really say it?.
It was always easier and cheaper to get a rx580. The power eficiency doesnt really matter when ypu gen a 30-40 dollar discount.
ID: gx3qq0rThe card competes on the level of the GTX 1650 and 1650 Super. Just costing way too much at launch.
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I have the rx 480 with a msrp of $239 USD released on June 2016. Going on compute units, because like Steve said the naming of AMD GPUs are shit, the current version is the RX 5700 that had a msrp of $349 USD and was released on July 7, 2019.
It's pretty clear you can't buy anything with a reasonable price this, and maybe next year. I started playing older games again this year because I'm not going to waste so much money just to play the newer titles. I would rather send that money on other things.
ID: gx1nqqdTo be fair, when AMD offered performance competitive cards for half price. People bought Nvidia anyways. Not saying AMD isn't enjoying milking consumers right now.
It's kind of proven though, if you price your product too low in comparison to your competition. People assume it's lower quality.
ID: gx1yrcayeah this comment need more traction, that was always the excuse
"hopefully a good amd gpu arrives and push down the price of GTX card they wanted..."
ID: gx3bs2r290x was a serious bargain in its day.
ID: gx1s846the 6GB 1060 was the same price or cheaper than the 8 GB RX480 for most of its life because of the first mining boom.
ID: gx2fgzbYou can still play new titles. Who says you HAVE to play every single modern AAA game at UltraNightmare Ray Tracing with 8x MSAAt at 4k? Just play your games at Medium-Low at 1080p.
ID: gx2u2poMEDIUM-LOW? 1080P???
Dude, you need to head to
Stat.Beneath Minimum at 720p, That's where it's at!
And the 5000-series APUs promised to be made available to PC builders later this year. And this isn't Intel's Semi-basic ShintelSD (IntelHD), this is full AMD Radeon Vega cores, up to 11 of them! Of course, Intel's new Xe GPU cores are looking tasty too...
ID: gx2ndh4Your currencies were inflated away. Those prices are gone.
ID: gx1rpypGoing on compute units, because like Steve said the naming of AMD GPUs are shit
Given the massive architecture changes between the 400 series and the 5000 series, that's not a very relevant comparison either.
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Link pointing to position in video where he focuses on AMD.
So hoping this one won't fall prey to Rule #4.
crosses fingers
ID: gx1lavtcan you give a tl:dw for all relevant amd parts pls
ID: gx1mvygPrice creep, but the main take away is that neither AMD nor Nvidia have any next gen options available at the $200 price point (this late into the gen). Which is a first for Nvidia.
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I think the lack of budget options relates to availability and pricing of higher quality monitors.
Consider the following non-sale prices for IPS monitors:
1080p @ 75hz > $120
1080p @ 144hz > $180
1440p @ 75hz > $200
1440p @ 144hz > $300Consider these requirements to drive these resolution and frame rate combinations:
1080p @ 60hz > 100%
1080p @ 75hz > 125%
1080p @ 144hz > 240%
1440p @ 60hz > 140-150%
1440p @ 75hz > 175-190%
1440p @ 144hz > 330-360%I'm just not sold that the issue is (entirely) greed. Budget cards used to have a target of 1080p @ 60hz. That resolution is being phased out. The target is now 1080p @ 75hz. Cards also have to be 20-25% more powerful with each generation to cover visual quality improvements. It seems like the target of a modern budget card is roughly the GTX 1660 Super ($250), which is excluded from the comparison chart. The question is the location of this increased target relative to manufacturing inflection points. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a budget offering, but I'm skeptical that such a card will cost less than $250 at this point, because that doesn't seem to make any sense.
ID: gx3v25sHigh refresh rate monitors have been a popular thing since 2013/2014 or so, but they didn't become ubiquitous until 2017-2018 and Nvida also left the adaptive sync lower end market. Now consoles and TVs support them. Marketing was behind the curve on how Nvidia and AMD targeted their customers because even stuff like the 1060 in 2016 was seen as '1080p for the masses.' Nvidia tried the same stuff with the 2060 as RTX for the masses. They just don't understand their customers. The 1060 was undersold and the 2060/RTX was way oversold.
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Newsflash: If GPUs are selling for 2x MSRP anyways, manufacturers can crank up the MSRP
ID: gx238m9Try watching the video before commenting.
ID: gx2kkjbIt's literally what happened, though. The first mining boom caused the MSRPs to go up, so we got nothing of good value after Pascal and Polaris.
Now that the market was about to settle down again we got the second mining boom along with global shortages to cause crazy pricing.
The 5700XT and 6700XT could have been successors to Polaris, maybe $300 class at worst, but because the market allows it, they are in a much higher price segment.
This isn't GPU manufacturers being evil, it's them realizing that they can ask for much more money than before, and making bigger, higher BOM cards accordingly to push the boundaries.
Now how AMD and Nvidia approach the situation is somewhat different. Nvidia keeps announcing random new cards that nobody can buy anyways, while AMD is holding back the low end cards and rather using the silicon for the higher end parts that sell out anyways. This makes the parts supply less dire, as one 6900XT needs a lot less stuff to make than two 6700XTs
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Poor fella still needs a haircut and a shave...;) Watching "Methuselah" crawl from a garbage dumpster to opine on what he personally thinks is wrong with everything is not the most inviting of scenarios. I mean, last I heard he solicits that evil green cash himself, does he not?
Simple truth: If you think someone is asking too much you are not compelled to buy it, are you? "Just say no to price scalping and gouging" seems simple enough. If companies are too busy to sell at their original MSRPs then I'm too busy to buy what they're selling. This isn't rocket science.
ID: gx1mod3Not everyone has to be a gray yuppie drone you know
ID: gx1ophwbuddy i think you might want to get some help
ID: gx2vhwf"You're not compelled to buy it..."
Until you are.
Sooner or later, Cards fail. CPUs Fail. Nothing lasts forever and if in 5 or 10 years your GPU is toast, then unless your CPU is an APU, you need to go shopping for something you can display on.
And if sub-$200 IS dead, then it'll take the market with it. because there's a lot of people out there, myself included, who would jump at a new reasonably-priced card (even once pricing and availability stop being crazy) with good perf-per-watt.
Although, have they stopped making 1080p60 Monitors? That's Not Cool.
ID: gx2ac8zyikes.
ID: gx2j0tpDon't talk shit about Tech Jesus!
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Kinda weird that he treated the vega series like it was completely seperate from the 400/500 series. Clearly the 500 was the midrange while vega was the high end.
Doing anything else wasn't very useful as the whole industry was basically in a holding pattern on 28nm waiting for the foundry industry to get its act together on what was later called 16/14nm.
ID: gx2njaqI understand where you are coming from, many compare Vega to the Fury. However Vega was clearly a distinct technical generation step forward unlike the Fury cards. Vega just wasn't significantly better than Polaris so AMD expanded the lifespan of the 400/500 series to slot into their lineup until Navi was ready.
So in terms of the timeline for the cards being sold, you can group the 400/500 series with Vega. However they are technically different generations of cards and that's what GN has used to compare.
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/n5gy37/gamers_nexus_nvidia_amd_wont_like_this_gpu_price/
and that people are defending these megacorporations.
They are? All I see online is bitching and moaning that there are no reasonably priced cards, no availability, and miners are soaking it all up. And while we all understand why NVIDIA and AMD arent lowering their prices (why would they if 100% are basically presold) Literally no one "defends them"