Expectations of AM5

1 : Anonymous2021/06/10 16:16 ID: nwrk9g

With the overall success of AM4 from AMD and now looking forward to AM5. What are the expectations as a consumer that we have for the next platform? Will AMD have another prolonged life and compatibility for it like its predecessor? Should we expect to continue to see the kinds of gains we saw from the 1600 to the 5600 over the course of time? Will pricing be like it was for the 3000s or like 5000s, although we see pricing decreasing on the 5000s as stock normalizes.

Edit: it was pointed out fairly a am4 board supporting the ryzen 1600 was not compatible with a 5600x, fairly. However we did receive better support than Intel does at 1-2 generations of support per socket.

2 : Anonymous2021/06/10 16:46 ID: h1arwak

I'd be cautious about making assumptions about this, wait for AMD to make official statements.

Now that they're in a position of power, they've shown they don't mind significantly increasing margins, being less "friendly" to the consumer, etc.

Also, what's going on with PCI-e advancement may effect this decision. (PCI-e specs are coming out much faster now)

So, I wouldn't be surprised if we only see 2 generations of support.

ID: h1asc0w

Okay that’s the kind of answer I’m looking for! What do you think AM5 will look like. A slide into mediocrity or a continual rise in dominance. Maybe AM5 is only 2 years maybe they attempt the same thing on AM4

ID: h1avcyt

What AM5 "looks like" is almost entirely governed by how good the CPUs are.

Zen4 and Zen5 are very likely to continue to dominate Intel.

"Zen3+", if it does turn out to be this, increases gaming performance by ~15% over Zen3, using the 3d stacked cache. This means Zen4 must be a further significant upgrade to that. Plus Zen4 should go up to 24 cores on the AM5/Ryzen platform.

So, just for Zen4, you're looking at AMD having something ~30% faster per-core than Zen3, and going up to 24 cores, in 2022.

How can Intel possibly match up to that? Alderlake would need to be ~40% faster per core to match Zen4 per-core, but then still be massively behind in multi-threaded performance, since it's supposed to top out at 8 'real' cores and 8 low-power cores, meaning it should be something like 10-12 'real' cores worth of performance.

3 : Anonymous2021/06/10 18:42 ID: h1b8wam

I know of several boards that work with the ryzen 1600 that work with the 5600x just as effectively... so while MANY may not, it's not reasonably to discount the fact they exist. Not only are there several 300 series based launch boards that work with the 5600x, there are several b550/x570 boards that work with the 1600. The former boards though were lackluster by several brand name companies because frankly they didn't put all that much effort into it likely due to not having confidence in their capabilities. AsRock is one that i think has by far the greatest level of compatibility across the boards.

As for what we'll see, well in all honesty short of some fundamental architectural changes that will minimalistically bump single thread performance, pretty much anything going forward is likely to substantially improve multi threaded solutions. In all honesty the way forward is parallelism, When you can no longer build up any better, you build out. With the 3D stacking solutions and powe

improvements come the ability to stick much more onto a package. I would expect at a minimum that we'd see 24 core AM5 consumer cpus with the real potential for 32 or maybe more. You may see in-die cooling methods in which to move the heat quicke to the heat spreader being implemented, but that's a pretty big stretch yet. I expect very powerful high core count APUs to become a real possibility.

But imo these are all a given. PCI-EX v5.0 probably mid socket life added, nvme v2.0 specifications being met, maybe even seeing 32 pci-ex lanes on a consumer desktop along with 4 channel or 3 channel memory support on higherend chipsets suitable for AM5. Granted DDR5 is a given which supports what appears to be dual channel per module support, either way it'll be interesting to see how things change.

ID: h1bdjpt

B450s typically have support for zen1-zen3. I had zen1 in my tomahawk only to pass it to my wife when I got zen2 and she has an Asus b450m-tuf plus. My bios is in beta, but hers are available in full release version

4 : Anonymous2021/06/10 21:58 ID: h1bzxje

If you want AM5, buy into the second gen of it. The first gen has the highest probability of flaws and loss of compatibility. B450 is the most compatible AM4 chipset today.

5 : Anonymous2021/06/10 16:19 ID: h1anxom

You are overstating the compatibility of the socket itself. It’s not like the first generation chipsets support 5th Gen Ryzen, they only saw 3 generations of support.

ID: h1aw8xm

My B450 Motherboard supports Ryzen 1000-5000. Which is really helpful because my old board died, and now I have a great upgrade path. Probably a bit niece, but it worked out great for me.

ID: h1ao417

Okay. Will we see 3 gens again? Still better than intels 2 generations max. With 3% gains in performance

ID: h1aos84

Actually x370 only supported 2 generations. My bad

6 : Anonymous2021/06/10 16:41 ID: h1ar8lj

I expect a rather huge gain of performance due to DDR-5, especially for APUs. The 2.5D / 3D design of silicon is calling for new gains, with much lower latencies. I’m pretty exited and would upgrade unless the end result would actually disappoint.

7 : Anonymous2021/06/10 17:07 ID: h1auyuo

I think it depends on if AMD is dictating that while AM5 may not initially support PCIE gen5, the motherboard traces needed to be done in order to support it. Keep in mind part of the issue with older AM4 boards was that they didn't have appropriate traces to support the advancements. IF AMD is forward thinking, then the boards will be ready for the next gen.

8 : Anonymous2021/06/10 18:31 ID: h1b77gz

25% ipc lift and a 15% 3DV stacking added or such.
Intel has blue balls for that btw

9 : Anonymous2021/06/10 19:45 ID: h1bhq6o

PCIe5, CXL, DDR5, more flexibility with high-speed lanes.

MAybe better support for APU needs with forethought to 3D stacking etc.

10 : Anonymous2021/06/10 20:01 ID: h1bk2ox

My best guess:

PCIe 4 w/ the ability to go to PCIe5 later. 28 PCIe lanes from the CPU 4 PCIe lanes to the chipset Chiplet CPUs will have a small GPU Support for 180W CPUs Hopefully support for NVMe RAID
11 : Anonymous2021/06/10 20:22 ID: h1bn18l

My expectations? It will be more expensive. And despite the same socket, mobos will support up to two generations of CPUs.

12 : Anonymous2021/06/10 21:14 ID: h1btwtq

It's just a socket, and a socket is just a pin layout. It enables some things, yes, like PCIe 5 and DDR 5, but neither of those will have a real-world performance impact in the near future. It's all about the CPUs.


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