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Old resident evil games progressively build up your arsenal of weapons to fight progressively tougher enemies as you are forced to conserve resources and selectively determine your engagements.
Some of you: you know what this franchise needs? Invincible pursuers, first person, and hide and seek! Oh and remove all guns because uh you're supposed to be helpless! that's what RE is ACTUALLY about none of this blasting at enemies like cawadooty!
Hate to break it to you, but turning Capcom into your favourite indie horror studio is just as antithetical to the identity of the series as would be the canonisation of Umbrella Corps. Resident Evil is not, and had never been, a hide and seek simulator. The games with the least elements of action are still giving you shotguns and grenade launchers and molotov cocktails. Fight or flight is the point. You don't like the veer towards fight; fine, but erasing that option is even worse. When you are defenceless by nature, you know the game is going to provide other mechanics to protect yourself (usually involves hiding..). When you are defenceless by the choice that you've exhausted your resources, you know you are fucked.
Tldr- the trend of making the player helpless is just as if not more contrary to the genre of resident evil as the action games it seeks to supplant
Edit: this post is not about existing games, this is about the suggestions I see from users about how to revive survival horror.
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I agree. Even in re1 game gives you plenty of ammo to exterminate almost everything in the mansion with extreme prejudice. Yea you didn’t have enough fuel to burn all the bodies and the crimson heads were annoying but still enough ammo to kill them again
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I don't see it as contrary to the genre and the existence of certain weapons really doesn't change anything.
But it's important to note that a lot of times gamers and redditors try to pin down a formula too much to the point where every little thing is explicitly defined. That isn't how definitions of things actually work. A word is a pointer to something that is beyond language itself.
This issue popped up when every two days we had a new metroidvania game come out and everyone thought that it was all about the mechanics, and that's the main factor that makes games good or bad. It isn't. It's the complete package of various concepts that are almost always too difficult to explain. It's no wonder that most of these games never caught on. Because the focus was on the wrong thing
So, survival horror isn't purely subjective, but that doesn't mean the working definition necessarily lives up to it. It's just more complicated than simple discreet itemized factors that can be placed on a reddit post.
ID: he4y30m -
I must've missed the memo where Capcom is turning RE into a hide and seek game. There's been exactly one small section in each of 7 and 8 where you're helpless. Then you go and progressively grow an arsenal of weapons and it feels like classic survival horror again. I feel like this post was made by someone who hasn't even played 7 or 8 and is still living in 2016 with the Beginning Hour demo.
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Invincible pursuers,
These fucking suck and are as anti fun as it gets it's not scary it's obnoxious and annoying
ID: he4p6xhEverybody seemed delighted with Mr. X so far and expected Nemesis to be more of a Invincible and unscripted pursuer tho so I guess Capcom will just follow that path as long as they want to keep it that way and gain some profits
ID: he4u0afTbf, neither are "invincible".
Mr. X can be knocked down/stunned for a short period but this is balanced by the fact that he's incredibly slow and you know his location at all times thanks to his footsteps.
Nemesis is much faster but he has a hard stun and rewards you for a first knockdown. There are also several ways to hard stun Nemesis.
There's also several ways to get away from them if need be without it being the biggest issue.
(They also only come pursue you for 1/3 of the game as well)
ID: he4uc89Mr X was ok, but I wasn’t thrilled they put him in Leon’s campaign instead of just Claire’s.
It’s like they took the spot light away from William Birkin and gave it to the latest fad in horror games.
Nemesis was the best of the latest round of invincible enemies as at least he could catch up with you and actually be considered a threat.
Dimitrescu and Mr X are powerless as you slowly walk around an object…
ID: he4qbceTo be fair if any enemy should be relentless panic inducting and annoying pursuer it should be Nemesis. Capcom for some reason made a stalker enemy in each game since RE7 with the exception of... Re3make. Dimitrescu, Jack and Mr X never needed to be stalkers - but Nemmy sure needed it.
ID: he5haa4I much prefer Mr. X in the original.
ID: he4tmv2My problem with Jack especially is his lack of static presense. When you start the game up after a save he's an ever changing variable that you can't plan around unless you know exactly where he spawns and how he moves, and those are difficult to pin down by themselves for the average player, to the point he's just a nuisance.
Unlike our favorite Tyrant, who actually has a pattern and set rules, Jack does not. He spawns where he wants, roam where he wants, and follows you where he wants. The only good thing ABOUT him is that he doesn't go into areas Molded spawn.
I legit had to deal with Jack roaming around in the fucking living room circling the table, never going upstairs or coming into the dining room hall. Eventually hiding behind the exact same wall i was behind, he "saw" me and went in to kill me. I didn't even make a sound, i just moved to the side a bit to get a better look at the door.
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ID: he4s9nyid say jack is a different type of gameplay than mr X, as theres no enemies who can help jack, but lady D is just jack but way less intimidating and far too oversexualised to be creepy
ID: he4sgohIf It even exists anyway
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agreed.
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Less action, more fear factor.
The had it in the original RE. The other ones were more focused on action with monsters, none of that "mystery-around-the-corner" sense of dread.
In "Silent Hill" they managed to keep the element alive.
It wasn't until RE VII that the element was reintroduced.
Horror is horror, everything else has it's own sub-category.
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I don’t know who’s saying they want resident evil to become outlast but they need to seek some professional help
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Good thing you aren’t defenseless at all and have a slowly building arsenal of increasingly powerful weapons still. Good thing the stalking sections in all cases make up for less than half the games run times. Not sure what RE games you’re playing where there aren’t any guns unless you played 7 for 5 minutes before getting the knife and pistol and assumed the whole game was like that. You’re not helpless at all. All the stalkers do is add another layer to the existing mechanics. Do you run from the stalker or slow them down with your weapons? What paths are safe and which have enemies and which will work for you should the stalker pursue you? Can you spare the ammo to slow them down? Which rooms are totally safe from them and which aren’t? Can you pinpoint where they are from their footsteps and how does that inform which path you take? It’s a lot to ask yourself, but that’s just on top of the usual questions like where does X puzzle piece go, should I clear certain hallways or save my ammo, can I tank a hit to save a little ammo or is it worth it to use the ammo to save the health. It’s just more Survival with your Horror. Another obstacle to think about in the overall puzzle that is the game. Another thing to consider in trying to survive.
At the end of the day though, stalkers still fit directly into the survival horror genre and have been a staple of the genre since Clock Tower.
ID: he55ulhThis post was not about any games in particular. Ironically I actually didn't mind Jack Baker. You completely miss the point by focusing on that. This is what I see advocated all the time on this sub in order to "bring back survival horror." Make another boring ass outlast, pt, alien isolation, or silent hill clone with resident evil characters. I have seen upvoted comments say that they or "most fans" (...) want an entire game like house beneviento, or they want stalkers to be even more pervasive like AI.
I don't think they add any worthwhile depth to anything. It's seldom ever actually scary, it just makes you open a map and reroute. How fun. Maybe, like Mr X, it will 'teleport' in front you after having lost it two rooms ago and it being slower than you. If you make it faster, to where it can't just be outran, then you've got yourself another garbage hide & seek simulator which many people actually seem to want. It is just an incredibly annoying presence in the game when it's featured for more than a short amount of time. I want to go back into the room I was just in? Can't, better loop around the map so I don't get suckerpunched, because the devs thought wasting a player's time was worth cheap jumpscares.
Making them fast and threatening = you to implement hiding mechanics because you cannot outrun or kill them
Making them slightly slower than you= no point in hiding mechanics, there characters are just a nuisance
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The way it looks like to me, even the developers at capcom are experimenting the gameplay and genre with the franchise.
Look how different ReC:V and Re4.
Re6 and Re Revelations.
Re7 and Re2r
By now I wouldn't be surprised if they make a resident evil go-kart game...lol
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Nah. Stalkers are essential to this series going forward IMO. Narratively this series has always been about bioweapons, and big hulking monsters you cant kill or disable for very long without a special weapon or being in a special location add a level of variety to the gameplay. RE1 remake is a good game, but its also a boring game at times and every enemy in it being killable so long as you have the ammo makes them all just slightly bigger healthbars. Mr X forces you to re-evaluate what you know about the RPD and use it to your advantage in avoiding him.
Without stalkers RE falls into repetition far too easily from my experience with all the games. RE4 in particular is one of the most repetitive games ive ever played, its pretty much the same kick enemies in face gameplay for 20 hours without anything fresh added in at any point to make my approach to the game change. RE1 is the same where every location plays the exact same way without a change, just try to save some ammo and solve the puzzles while making sure not to leave any crimson heads around. RE2 remake in comparison is one of the most balanced games ive ever played, its a mostly survival horror game that also utilised the stalker mechanics of alien isolation or outcast for about 1/3rd of it to force the player to readjust to the RPD again in a new light and finally the game has its sillier fights against birkin without making the action hit re5 levels of unaware self-parody.
By comparison re8 as imo is a disaster of an RE title. The beneviento house is really poorly implemented into the overall gameplay loop by taking your weapons away and becoming the very same indie horror title you're complaining about. Lady D is a pathetic stalker with the layout of castle Dimitrescu so basic and linear they had to severely limit the number of enemies as well as the rooms she can roam so she wouldnt be an overpowered unfun mechanic rather than focus on creating more rooms and paths for her to be able to take so the cat and mouse mechanic would be only minorly intrusive like Mr X is on replays of 2 remake where i can lose him and not see him again before im practically back out of the RPD again
ID: he4u97gIf you think re4 or re1 are some of the most repetitive games you've ever played, then you haven't played any hide and seek "horror" games..
To say it introduces nothing new is a lie. Even if that were the case, introducing a mechanic that actively punishes exploration does no one any favours. I would much rather have a consistent gameplay loop with variances thrown in than have the method of variety be the institution of an annoying pace-breaker.
Literally every game with enemies ever can be broken down to "walking health bars"; that isn't enough to make it "boring." In fact I'd say what's infinitely more boring is what's impossible to defeat.
ID: he54mb5Why is horror in quotation marks?
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To be fair resident evil is already dead
ID: he57acdWhen did it die?
ID: he583dvProbably 4, with how successful it got, to where the action overtook the survivor horror genre. I think 7 was a paste over job of an indie game like pt, with the resident evil name attached to it. Nothing to do with how fun it is to play those games, but it’s not the same
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I'd say the best resident evil to find the balance between action and survival horror was RE7. Maybe it's just me but I just cannot stop shaking when playing.
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I always found during my initial playthroughs that the enemies were so strong that your weapons felt ineffective. This came across a lot better during the older titles, when it took 6-12 bullets to take down some zombies.
That's what brought the survival and the horror elements to RE. You could have the tools you need, but the difficulty and tension came from how and when to use them.
Even 8 had that for a while in the castle.
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I'm confused why you're conflating RE1 with survival horror. It coined the term but it didn't invent the genre. :/
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/residentevil/comments/puqk04/theres_a_growing_misconception_about_what/
This is a wonderful response.