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Game Studios Outsource "Crunch Time" Workload Overseas to Not Get Caught
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Child labor and crunch is ok if they are doing it in Asia - Every big company ever
Every asian country: we don't mind child labor and crunch if you pay us enough
ID: gq38v1yID: gq53vm6Well that's the horrible work culture, in India for example they'll just say Oh you want this job, sure, here's 1/5th of the actual pay that we charge the client for it, take it or leave, I've got 20 others waiting behind you for the same low money. And yes, you must work 14hour days including Saturdays, or else bye bye!
Sadly it'll never change because there's so much competition and so many people looking for the same job.
ID: gq34lymYea they have great governments
ID: gq4ib6dthere is always a way.
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Imporntant Takeaway: "Specifically, People Make Games spoke to developers at Lemon Sky in Malaysia and Brandoville in Indonesia. Employees from both spoke about working 70 hour weeks, staying at their desk till 5am, often sleeping in the office, and not being paid any overtime. They describe a culture where this was expected of them by the company, and often explicitly demanded by their bosses.
Outsourcing itself is not the issue here. The issue is the exploitation of workers happening at the companies doing the outsourced work."
ID: gq2v4qfThat kind of treatment can be found in most of the companies in those countries though. The true issue is their government and extreme lack of rights.
ID: gq34agcWhy do you think companied outsource work?
ID: gq2z9oyOutsourcing is an issue in that it's something that affects the position of workers in "first world" countries. If you know your job can get outsourced, it's harder for you to fight for better conditions or higher wages.
ID: gq5bry8I am an Indonesian. I can confirm this culture is prevalent not just in Gaming Studios here.
You're kinda expected to put your 110% at work everyday, because you're expected to be eternally grateful for your boss giving you work in the first place.
I wish I was kidding, but it's that rooted in our culture that it is becoming a problem. You're expected to have more of a relationship with your boss, and if you don't or you don't want to you're often out of luck.
So yes, crunch/overtime is very common here and sadly it isnt going away anytime soon.
No amount of Internet outrage from Reddit is even going to change it because Reddit is blocked/banned by ISPs here. I have to use a VPN to use Reddit.
ID: gq3sxb0Outsourcing is not the issue being upvoted... smh
Why you think they outsourcing in the first place, because they know they can get away with shit like that overseas
ID: gq3a0k3No, the white elephant in the room is that capitalism cannot exist without exploitation.
ID: gq2tc0zWhen you outsource you know it's going to happen. It's kind of like Foxconn and how everyone outsourced a lot of things to them knowing people literally kill themselves because it sucks so hard there.
ID: gq4vocpOutsourcing is the issue because they're exporting the work to labour markets with worse workers' rights.
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Original video was already posted.
/comments/lxoj7p/someone_elses_problem_how_game_publishers_buy/" class="reddit-press-link" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.reddit.com//comments/lxoj7p/someone_elses_problem_how_game_publishers_buy/RPS is just doing their usual lazy virtue signalling by linking to the video, giving a summary and linking to another article.
Also this closing quip:
Also they sometimes release videos by some guy called Quinns.
Is insufficient disclosure of a relationship to the channel, which RPS have a history of.
Quintin Smith is a contributor to Rock Paper Shotgun and also in some of the People Make Games videos. Simply saying “some guy called Quinn” doesn’t adiqualty indicate a relationship.
I used to read RPS back in the day, TB even held them in high regard for being PC focussed, but the standard has fallen so far.
RPS is just doing their usual lazy virtue signalling by linking to the video, giving a summary and linking to another article.
Most sites re-report other site's content. So long as it is properly attributed, there is no issue.
Quintin Smith is a contributor to Rock Paper Shotgun and also in some of the People Make Games videos. Simply saying “some guy called Quinn” doesn’t adiqualty indicate a relationship.
He hasn't written anything for the site in 5 years.
Ah this again. It's funny that no one mentions the overworked and underpaid Chinese workers in factories producing all the electronics the west so desperately wants. I don't think the word 'crunch time' is a thing there, it's just something you do if you want to put food on the table.
It's funny that no one mentions the overworked and underpaid
People (as in individuals) do mention and talk about the practical slave labor a lot of corporations use and foreign deregulation they rely on quite often. It just never gains a big platform.
And much of the governments worldwide are more than happy to go along with it themselves. For the ideologies and virtues many claim to have... look at how corporations and governments spouting them treat China and the conditions therein. Pretty awkward right? If they had those ideals they sure spend a lot of time kissing the ass of a regime that loves nothing more than STOMPING on them.
The irony is the bleeding heart politics a lot of these companies and politicians can have.... goes right out the door when it involves near slave labor, pollution, or countries performing genocide... as long as it's on the other side of the globe. Ship it to China where it is out of sight and out of mind, pretend you're a pillar of morality, and feed more money to Winnie the Pooh's regime.
Fuck crunch culture. I am sick of it.
Wait til you see how you 'cheat' the figures.
Hire 300 employees in SE Asia on "crunch time". (for basically less than $0.50/hr to do nothing)
Force 30 US employees to work overtime.
then either claim only 10% of your workers did overtime OR claim the "crunch" was only 10% of that reported per person..
Aside from it being inhumane and unethical, do they actually expect to get quality work under these conditions? Involving people that aren't familiar with the product on its own is already iffy, but having them overworked and half asleep sitting on their computers while they slave away isn't going to get you quality content.
...but maybe they just hand off the dumb monkey work that would just slow down their own Rockstar Dev's... or that is what they think they are doing and then they get something broken like Cyberpunk or Avengers.
Either way i find it weird they would do this. I don't care how awesome of a Dev you are, at some point your brain just starts being mush and you get inefficient without sleep, food and so on and start making dumb small mistakes that slow you down to a crawl.
Vote with your wallets.
Fuck that, I'm not going to do extensive research on every game I'm interested in to see if the developer is ethical or not. If a game looks interesting I'll buy it.
Which means that these people won't have jobs because their companies shut down.
india :')
It's already here buddy. It's now how can we automate things on a small budget for an ever growing unneeded workforce. That will be the true growing pains for society.
Crunch is really not going to stop without a significant cultural shift that starts from children up.
Most of the people companies are trying to please really don't care about worker treatment. At least, not comparatively to their games showing up on time and playable.
It's mostly just a shame game at this point
Well no fucking shit.
There is no such thing as a good job.
It's funny because if they just gave fair compensation nobody would complain.
Instead they dig their own grave by degrading their product's quality by handing it off to a people who doesn't have any attachment to the project and just wants to get it done asap.
I've often wondered what the world would be like if companies were required by law to ensure that all workers involved in the entire production and supply chain of their products, no matter what country they're in, received the same minimum working standards and pay levels they would receive if they lived in the same country as the host company.
So for example, Apple has to ensure Chinese workers making their phones receive the same minimum working standards and pay levels as their employees in the US.
There would be a few benefits, like for example, less jobs would disappear overseas, because lets face it, the almost sole reason for overseas outsourcing, 99% of the time, is to exploit cheap labour in countries with weak industrial relation laws.
You can’t enforce working standards in other countries unfortunately it’s just not really doable. As someone who works with contractors in Brazil India and the Philippines, you just gotta trust you’re working with businesses who treat their employees right
I've often wondered what the world would be like if companies were required by law to ensure that all workers involved in the entire production and supply chain of their products, no matter what country they're in, received the same minimum working standards and pay levels they would receive if they lived in the same country as the host company.
Well China would have a lot less money and probably wouldn't be the #2 economic power. Something like that would probably have a massive impact on the entirety of global politics, job market, and have changed which countries are ahead right now and which aren't.
It'd be a completely different world.
Not feasible, since even in a single country, the pay for a job can vary depending of the states and how expensive it is to live in it. Also, if they outsouce, it means they aren't the one paying those overworked people, they just pay another company to do that work, so it wouldn't change anything.
Eh it would create a world where rich countries keep getting richer and poor will be stagnant or get poorer, I guess they can get some money with tourism or poverty tourism. There will be more wars cause countries don't depend on each other for trade they will fight over resources. There is a huge brain drain from poor countries to first world countries. Basically the 1960-1990s
How exactly would that be enforced?
At the very best it's almost impossible, and at the worst it would be prohibitively costly. In America for example we can't even ensure the enforcement of laws regarding voting. How the hell would anyone expect the corruptocrat machine to enforce labor laws on companies regarding overseas and outsourced product?
Glad we can put the whole “good guy CDPR” circlejerk to rest at this point.
Stuff like this irritates me. Everyone wants to virtue signal, and claim they are all for ethics. Yet not one is willing to pay 2-3x more for their games or electronics.
I would be more than willing to pay 2-3x more for gadgets if it meant more jobs in my home country. I go out of my way to try to find and spend more on stuff thats made here to help local businesses.
I've paid $50-60 for 8 bit games back in 1989 as a kid mowing lawns for $5 a lawn. So a game costing $100 or more today wouldn't bother me in the slighest.
Everybody wants to race to the bottom and shop at Walmart for the cheapest things they can get, then whine when jobs go overseas.
Bullshit, who the fuck would think "Dragonball Xenoverse 2 is £40 on Steam, I'd love to pay £80-120 for that game if it meant more jobs for people who wouldn't do the same for me"
Jesus just let devs crunch. Games are already dipping in GAMEPLAY quality, less time will just mean pretty, simpler, shorter games. Go work for a bank if you don't like your work, a lot of hungry young devs will gladly take your place, and they're coming from every corner of the globe.
This is the exact same argument that was used in favour of child labor, 6 day work weeks and 16 hour work days.
Games have become increasingly profitable, yet gameplay quality has become worse. Perhaps you should question where all of those extra profits are going if not to the people making the game.
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/lzl66d/game_studios_outsource_crunch_time_workload/
uh, speaking as someone who grew up in an asian country, it's more like "listen here bugface i don't give a shit about labor law or ecology if you don't make my phone the cheapest possible i'm taking this contract to bangladesh, is that what you want? thought so."