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Amid Navi Mining Rumors, AMD States GPU Revenue Growth is Driven by Gamers, Not Miners
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I mean yeah I doubt it's miners buying $1500-2000 RX6900XTs where AMD's best margin doubtlessly is, but it's miners because of whom a 8GB RX580 costs multiple times than it sold for originally. Good and dandy of AMD to have your Gamer Back covered... but mainly as long as you're eager to shell out a grand for their XTXH die.
ID: hcm5pn2ID: hco6d6w... They no longer produce Polaris, and haven't for a while now. All current stock is old dies.
ID: hclfeuuIs your issue with AMD or with the economic system? Because if the problem is that there are people in the world who are willing to pay more than you for a scant resource, maybe its not the former.
ID: hclmnlcMy issue is with people pretending AMD is somehow anything but literally the biggest benefactor of the market situation, and that they're doing anything but literally maximizing the profit they can earn from it. Especially jarring are the posts on this sub to this day ripping into NVidia and Intel as if this was some sort of refuge of the One Fair Vendor while the alternatives are vile and abusive.
ID: hclm2utthis. people are too emotional to see this and want a scapegoat to vent their frustration
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Is that why GPU prices follow ETH pricing so closely? ETH went down, GPU prices went down. ETH went up, GPU prices went up.
ID: hcluynaIt contributes to the shortages, no doubt, but you can't deny that gamer demand is also up. See: consoles.
ID: hcny87kMining is the main driver of GPU prices. Can't deny there's more demand, but miners are the ones buying several GPUs and driving the prices where they are now
Consoles can't mine, and you just have most previous gen users wanting to update. So it's not the same.
ID: hcm9fkePS5 sold 7.8M, PS4 sold 7.6M in first fiscal year, so no, not really
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Maybe, if you count scalpers as gamers, sure.
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PR stunt, trying to get into gamers' good graces.
Talk is cheap.
ID: hcm08vbTalk is cheap, GPUs ain't.
And until they are, all the talk in the world don't sell. DIAMOND HANDS, Folks.
ID: hcls8lpYes, talk is cheap and without numbers on how many GPUs are going to miners your talk really isn't worth anything. Most GPU aren't going to miners directly anyway. AMD has a point to what they are saying, sure they are making some nice profit from miners, but baseline profit is coming from gamers and workstation sales... crypto GPU sales is wildly unpredictable.
Also its fairly easy to estimate how many GPUs miners bought based on GPU type and pool hashrate increases.
ID: hcllqgxtalk is cheap
what do you expect in free market? that companies refuse millions of dollars of miner money to cater to GAMERS(tm)?
GPU isn't the sole property of gamers. miners or even a dog have a right to buy it as long as they have money to buy it. you and many gamers (including me) may not like it but this is reality. i hate how people have become self absorbed myopic a holes who think whole world caters to only their needs.
AMD, Nvidia and Intel all are FOR PROFIT companies and they will sell their products to whoever holds deep pockets.
the only thing that will improve this GPU swamp is if AMD, Nvidia and Intel increase their production but that isn't going to happen because of stupid covid restrictions.
ID: hclmq13what do you expect in free market?
I expect said companies not to insult my intelligence by sweet talking and feeding me obvious bullshit.
You should also calm the fuck down, your post reads as if you're foaming at the mouth. I absolutely love it when someone comes along and patronizes me by explaining that companies exist to make money, as if that's some arcane long lost knowledge.
ID: hclpmm7[removed]
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Suuuuureee. And I'm sure if crypto were to crash, there wouldn't be a sudden enormous drop in revenue caused by a flood of cheaper used cards so AMD sells fewer cards and rely on actual gamers after the used mining cards dry up.
I believe you :wink:. And I'm sure your mid and lower end 6000 series cards wouldn't suddenly drop in price because you actually have to compete with Nvidia to sell cards again. No, those cards are simply too expensive to make at a competitive price 🙂 hahaID: hcl0jogNailed it
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Doesnt matter all that much if AIB's will sell directly to miners in bulk. I dont doubt AMD recognizes that miners dont present a long term customer base and are very fickle, but if they dont ensure that AIBs and retailers will sell directly to consumers and gamers, not miners, it'll count for very little.
ID: hclht2yAs if gamers will stop buying GPUs all of a sudden because their feelings got hurt by companies selling to miners lol
There's not a lot of alternatives or huge competition in this market so once all miners stop buying in an instant and supply starts increasing, queue in the gamers who've been salivating for months, years, decades for those shiny cards. And then crypto rises again, miners start buying en masse and the cycle repeats all over.
There will never be a win scenario for the consumer in this market and companies who are already established in this industry like AMD and Nvidia are in a hell of a good time for the foreseeable feature.
ID: hclmzqdI think you misunderstand my point. The shortages will not last forever and things should normalise in 2-3 years from now at the latest. AMD is likely to remain the underdog in GPU space against Nvidia and it will be a more difficult hill to climb than it was in the CPU space versus Intel. Getting GPU's in the hand of gamers now will be important for their future mindshare and people being familiar and comfortable with their products, that's how they fight Nvidia in the space (aside from making competitive products.)
A company AMD's size with a strategy five-ten years in the future cant afford to chase short-term profits as an underdog in an a competitive environment like this. The R&D investments alone are in billions, but those are largely wasted if they cant sell to gamers which actually mean repeat business in the future, unlike miners, as volatility of crypto aswell as the incredibly disruptive landscape makes them very unreliable for long-term business opportunities and growth.
ID: hcljb1eIt really depends on what Intel might bring to the table. If Intel manages to introduce a discrete gpu that can be used for desktop purposes and is widely available, they will be perfectly positioned to put pressure on AMD and Nvidia. Unfortunately, we are stuck with two companies who are undoubtedly encouraging price fixing and are doing nothing to disrupt the flow of cards directly to miners.
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So..... are there actual numbers/statistics to back that up, or...?
Like I don't understand how this statement is verified. Are people volunteering this information when they buy AMD GPU's?
Is there a survey upon purchasing that has a checkbox for "I'm buying this GPU for gaming" or "I'm buying this GPU to mine"?
I feel like it would've been news if that existed...
ID: hcnzxxtWorth remembering that AMD has access to their driver telemetry. They don't share that information, but they should have some idea of who's using their cards at least. Just have to check the telemetry to see how many installs run at least 1 game or application known to the drivers.
It becomes a bit murky because miners probably have telemetry turned off, along with some gamers. They can get a decent estimate for how many have it turned off by comparing number of devices shipped versus number of installs with telemetry enabled, but how you get from there to how many of those are miners is beyond me.
ID: hcm33xgon the last crypto crash nvidia's revenue plummet and AMD's didn't. So at least back there (when amd was better at mining actually) they were selling mainly to non-mining users.
ID: hcn3awvthat's because nvidia is a pure GPU company, while AMD was taking back a lot of CPU market from intel. they also had about double the inventory fill requirements of AMD since nvidia took up 70%~ of the market. both companies saw a big sudden shipment drop in discrete gpus:
Jon Peddie Research’s latest report has Nvidia’s graphics cards down by 7.6 percent during Q4 2018, while AMD's GPU shipments fell 6.8 percent.
ID: hco7hzvThat's not what happened, the mining boom before that one amd produced a ton of GPUs becaus whey selling more make more right, then when it burst they were left with a massive over supply. The next mining boom (the one you're talking about) Nvidia did the same thing and amd didn't, Nvidia even said the revenue was from gamers and were caught lying about it iirc
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I think they meant bots, not gamers
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Sounds like a flat out lie given the Steam GPU stats and the pictures of miners having pallets and pallets of AMD GPUs.
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Bs the first shipments of cards were sold to miners by the container. It’s nonsense
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Of course they are, even though it's miners and scalpers driving growth.
They can't admit that it's miners or investors will start getting uneasy.
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Eth can't get to proof of stake fast enough
ID: hclfwkjIt literally can't. No, seriously, it's been going pos for years...
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Trying to act as gamer-friendly company.
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It really doesn't matter what AMD says. Anyone who has been paying attention sees that AMD has done NOTHING to counteract the issue of miners controlling the gpu market right now.
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Press X for doubt
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Is there a black on white distinction between miners and gamers these days? The distinction is more like mass buyers vs regular folks.
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That statement is likely counting the consoles, as they custom navi chips. Miners are driving the entire segment currently.
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I call this BS
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Ya, that’s why I just sold a 5600XT on ebay for $650 to a miner who wants more cards. Get a grip AMD.
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AMD is full of shit.
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*sniffs*
Yup, that's BS right there
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yeah "gamers" that's why everyone with bots buys all the cards every thursday and even when you manage to buy one they cancel your order 😉
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Lip service for the shareholders who are rightfully wondering what happens at the next crypto crash. When you make people look over the horizon to Intel for some GPU market relief, you know you've critically mismanaged something...
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This gamer is still running his GTX 1070 because of shitty prices and with cheating in multiplayer games will probably continue using it until it dies at this rate, annoying as I bought a TV that does 4k 120hz and can only run 4k 60hz with limited colours.
ID: hcmroyzThis situation is limiting progress. Affordable 4K 144Hz+ IPS monitors are available (m28u comes to mind) but there are no cards to push them ( unless you want to spend twice the money for your GPU, then your advanced monitor ).
No point upgrading from my 1070, when i can not buy anything to drive that kind of display. So that is lost sales for AMD/Nvidia/ and the other brands. And my focus simply moves to "future" releases.
Its funny that this insane market is actually saving me money.
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I have 8 AMD 6000-series cards mining their heart out.
ID: hckkok7I would have gotten the 6700xt but they cost here as much as I paid for my 6800xt at retail.
No fricking way AMD is gonna get my money at those prices. The 6800xt was my last AMD purchase till they drop prices.
ID: hckl2eqAMD already got their money. It's the retailers who are gouging you.
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Sure, for now... Until AMD releases a card for miner. I am sure AMD sees Nvidia make extra money with their miner cards and probably are are saying heck why not cater to miners... So yeah gamers for now.
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"We didn't sell much directly to miners so rest are all gaming demand"
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Good, so get sapphire to send me my fucking GPU ive waited 8 months for
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"Gamers": "I just want couple of cards for myself and brothe
but everything is hard to get and expensive." has 10 mining rigs -
Revenue growth was driven by neither miners nor gamers, but by scalpers. So long as those GPU's are selling as soon as they come in, both AMD and Nvidia are rubbing their hands in delight.
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AMD can state whatever they want but the market share says that gamers arent buying it actually.
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Well yea
There are 100 million pc gamers and maybe 1 million miners
I've been saying this for so long, miners srnt causing this shortage, sure they are making it worse, but not the root cause
If you took miners away, the situation would be either the same or a bit better (maybe able to find cards at msrp whenever there is stock, instead of above msrp)
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This is an incredibly reductive statement, did it ever cross your mind that each miner could have 101 cards?
The market for new GPUs was 100% gamers in October, but they were NOT 100 million, not everyone is looking to upgrade, couple this with card inflation, ETH prices, and the current shortages and is very clearly majority miners.
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In recent news was a case of a Chinse Court returning 500.000 AMD 470's because of a hosting dispute.
That was ONE miner group and it was not only all their cards, just the cards that got in a dispute at one hosting location!
So how many locations do they have?
A GPU is simply a virtual money printing machine. For a miner a return of investment of 4 months or 8 months ( seeing as most cards are double the price ), is the same to them. Those cards will keep mining for 3 years and still sell in the second hand ( or counterfeit ) market.
There is no incentive to really stop their buying, because every card is a "employee" making money with little maintenance.
People really underestimate how big mining groups really are. And those people like to stay out of the spotlight because attention draws in regulation. And they do not want this. I am betting plenty of criminal organizations all around the world are heavily invested into crypto mining and those guys got billions to spend with money constantly flowing in!
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You have a short memory (look at 2018 gpu shortages)
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There was more then just mining that caused that
Supply was lower as both nvida and amd were preparing to release new cards at the mid-end of the year, so with the spike of demand and lower supply caused a shortage
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/pmueo3/amid_navi_mining_rumors_amd_states_gpu_revenue/
I'm just going purely off memory, which is likely not up to date. But I believe the 6900 XT was worse for mining than 6800 XT which is why in some scenarios 6800 XT Is more expensive than 6900 XT. This is in regards to power draw vs MH/s