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The L-STAR should spawn with 20 ammo already in the gun
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This is a list of links to comments made by Respawn developers in this thread:
Comment by AmusedApricot:
We are trying to find a good solution for this! It's tougher than it seems. As noted by others, the LSTAR uses ammo in a different way. Most guns have ammo on pickup because the ammo in the magazine doesn't count towards ammo in your inventory, so they can spawn with a full mag and not have it affec...
Comment by AmusedApricot:
Care package weapons are a different type of ammo system entirely. Apex weapons use "ammo pools", which is a value we can set on the player and is used so that ammo is a loot item in apex that goes in your inventory. For most weapons, the "ammo pool" for the ammo type (say, energy ammo), is the *res...
Comment by AmusedApricot:
As noted above, then as a someone carrying a Devotion shouldn't I just pick up and drop every LSTAR I come across? Then I gotta re-pick up the weapon I dropped, and re-add attachments, which is clunky and annoying. But if I don't I'm literally just not picking up ammo that I need, so I feel like I n...
Comment by AmusedApricot:
As noted above, then as a someone carrying a Devotion shouldn't I just pick up and drop every LSTAR I come across? Then I gotta re-pick up the weapon I dropped, and re-add attachments, which is clunky and annoying. But if I don't I'm literally just not picking up ammo that I need, so I feel like I n...
Comment by AmusedApricot:
No problem! I enjoy trying to give some insight on why things are sometimes more complicated and tricky than they seem. The saying "the devil is in the details" is very very true in game dev (and most creative / problem solving endeavors tbh). Games are hard! But, these sorts of sticky problems are ...
Comment by AmusedApricot:
It doesn't seem worth it to completely destroy the thing that makes this gun unique just to fix this bug in my opinion Also, that would take a ton of work! New animations, new sounds, new model work, new rigs, how to make it work on the legendaries, etc.
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This is problematic from a coding standpoint because this gun behaves differently than every other gun. Rather than pulling ammo from a set amount, and then pulling from backpack to reload, this gun’s “magazine” is the backpack itself. This means that they would have to somehow code it so the gun has a set of ammo, which means it’s in the backpack, but also that this ammo doesn’t fill the backpack at all and isn’t accessible by the player or any enemies who might kill said player.
ID: gvbyl3mID: gvc1zglRespawn are kings of repurposing tech and mechanics for use in practical ways. This seems like the simplest solution that would work
ID: gvdpfi1As noted above, then as a someone carrying a Devotion shouldn't I just pick up and drop every LSTAR I come across? Then I gotta re-pick up the weapon I dropped, and re-add attachments, which is clunky and annoying. But if I don't I'm literally just not picking up ammo that I need, so I feel like I need to do it. The game is actively encouraging me to do something that sucks. Then, since everyone is running around picking up and dropping LSTARs for the free ammo brick, there are gonna be tons of LSTARs I find that don't have ammo anyway, and we are in the same problem, it's just unreliable and inconsistent now!
ID: gvc9bh8But wouldn’t you then run into the issue of spawning infinite energy ammo?
ID: gvcabmzWhile I get what you mean, they somehow managed to dodge that issue with care package weapons. Their ammo doesn't appear anywhere, it's just set on drop for the gun, and doesn't "exist" physically in game.
Maybe they can try to figure something out for the L-Star (especially since it was, at some point, a care package drop), but that is probably really tricky and not worth the time and effort
ID: gvdozf5Care package weapons are a different type of ammo system entirely. Apex weapons use "ammo pools", which is a value we can set on the player and is used so that ammo is a loot item in apex that goes in your inventory. For most weapons, the "ammo pool" for the ammo type (say, energy ammo), is the reserve ammo, but it doesn't count any ammo in the mag. If you have a Volt with 15 rounds in mag and 4 rounds reserve, you have 4 energy ammo in your inventory. If you reload and the volt has 19 rounds in mag, you have 0 in reserve and no energy ammo in inventory. If you drop the volt, it still holds that 19 rounds in mag, so another player picks it up and it has 19 rounds (simplification of some tech stuff here). When you first pick up a weapon, we give it a full mag, so you get some ammo. The issue is that the LSTAR has a magazine size of 0. This specifically makes it act like the "infinite ammo" / "no reload" type of weapon, but then it doesn't have any ammo that "live in the mag" like other weapons. Care package weapons are like titanfall ammo system. They don't store any ammo on your player or in inventory at all -- all of their ammo exists on the gun. This works because you can never find more ammo as loot for care package weapons! That's why they are set up differently and work differently.
ID: gvcgokoActually, 20 individual bullets set to work as care package weapons do and pickup ammo from the backpack after it gets to zero would solve the issue.
ID: gvbycpaWhat he said
ID: gvd7ob2It’s funny, because I said this exact thing and even provided a developer reply as a source,, but instead got downvoted to oblivion whilst the guy that called me stupid, unintelligent, pathetic, and a waste of space for linking it to him got upvoted lol.
ID: gvbyjlyI’m not sure if this is possible with their build or not. But maybe they could code it so that the lstar and a 20 stack are “bundled” together such that when you pick up the gun you get both things. And if you’re out of bag space it’ll just pop out like when upgrading attachments
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I've had two ideas for two different guns.
L-Star: Allow 1x Digital Threat Attachment.
Compared to other energy weapons, the L-Star is hard as hell to hit from range, hard to control, and of course doesn't get any base ammo. Allowing the x1 Digital Threat harkens to the OG legendary L-Star bettor or entered normal loot pool.
G7-Scout Allowed to pick up standard OR sniper attachments.
The G7 isn't bad, but with other carbines in the game, mainly the 30-30, I've always felt the Scout should be reminiscent of its sniper days. Allow it to attach snipe
stocks, and light/sniper extended magazines (basing the ammo per rarity off of its existing ammo counts ). This makes it more of a utility gun then just another carbineID: gvcrgb0I don’t disagree with most of this. But I think we should get rid of sniper stocks entirely. Just make regular stocks work with all guns. Makes the pool less diluted.
ID: gvcwopzI don't agree on stocks I think fewer people snipe and it's easier to find a purple sniper stock than a normal one which is great. If they were universal you'd rarely get one. I prefer them separate.
ID: gvdgqvvAlso I think there needs to be a legendary sight for Assult Rifles (Hemlock Flatline R301 G7 Havoc And Lstar). I just watched a walk through of TF2 and there was some cool sights.
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We are trying to find a good solution for this! It's tougher than it seems. As noted by others, the LSTAR uses ammo in a different way. Most guns have ammo on pickup because the ammo in the magazine doesn't count towards ammo in your inventory, so they can spawn with a full mag and not have it affect your inventory at all. The LSTAR's ammo count is just the amount of ammo you have in your inventory, so if you pick it up with no ammo in inventory, then it's 0 which stinks. Hopefully it's not a problem every time much because guns have their ammo spawn next to them, but it definitely is too common that you get one with 0 ammo and can't use it, which sucks.
There are a few solutions that seem possible but have some pretty big problems that make them untenable. The most obvious one is "what if you got free ammo in your inventory when you picked up an LSTAR?", but then people could get infinite ammo! This leads into "what if the LSTAR only gave the ammo when it was picked up the first time?", but this encourages some weird and unfun play patterns. Remember, when you are finding an LSTAR on the ground with no ammo around it, that's because another player has come along and wanted the ammo but not the gun, so they scooped up the ammo. Since they want the ammo, we are just encouraging anyone running a volt to have to pick up LSTARs and immediately drop them for the ammo. This is obviously frustrating since you may have to drop a gun and all it's attachments then repick it all back up, and it's just a bizarre and clunky thing to do when we've done so much work to make looting streamlined and fluid. Additionally, now some LSTARs will give you ammo when you pick them up, and some won't, since some LSTARs will have been touched by other players and some not. It'll be super inconsistent and confusing, and that'll make it hard for most players to understand, since they don't come on reddit or read patch notes or anything. "What if the LSTAR gave ammo but only the first time it was picked up _per player_". This doesn't solve the degenerate use case of needing to pick up and drop LSTARs for the ammo, and it may cause worse things where a team passes around the LSTAR to each other to get max ammo then moves all the ammo to someone. "What if it was _per squad_?". This still doesn't solve the big issue of the weird use case. "What if it only gives ammo one time per squad and it only gives ammo if you don't have energy ammo already or another energy gun or..." at this point, the design alarm bells are ringing. This solution is just getting far too complicated and special case-y. Almost no players will be able to understand or figure out the rules of how it works, and the whole point is to make picking up the LSTAR and immediately using it consistent and smooth -- this is just making things inconsistent and weird and complicated. In general, when a design solution starts having to make tons of minor conditional adjustments to meet tons of special cases, that's just an indicator that it's not a good or elegant solution. For these reasons, we decided to steer away from that sort of stuff.
HOWEVER, we have some other ideas! There's one that we think is a decent solution, it has some weirdness but I think it's worth it for the benefits. But, from the technical side, it gets pretty hairy and has the potential for lots of bugs. The problem is fundamentally due to the fact that the various ammo systems are coded differently and are built for very specific purposes, and we want to do some sort of weird hybrid between 2 of them and pick and choose pieces from each. This requires some technical rework and needs to be done right, we can't just hack this in real quick due to the risk of how much stuff has to be touched, and in general there's a lot of UI and gameplay adjustments and such that needs to be changed to make this work. Think of everywhere in the game where the game is dealing with how to move around and mess with ammo, and then realize that there's tons of places it happens that you probably don't even realize on the surface (guns on the ground aren't the same entity type as a usable weapon, ammo boxes on the ground aren't the same as ammo in your inventory, which isn't the same as ammo in your gun, etc.). We have some initial work done, but it wasn't ready for the next season launch. We're working on it though!
ID: gvdoj6tWow, you didn't have to be this detailed but I personally greatly appreciate it 🙂 game development can be very complicated it seems,
ID: gvdrj4pNo problem! I enjoy trying to give some insight on why things are sometimes more complicated and tricky than they seem. The saying "the devil is in the details" is very very true in game dev (and most creative / problem solving endeavors tbh). Games are hard! But, these sorts of sticky problems are interesting and cool to think about, and I enjoy talking about them!
There are big sticky hard questions in design that are project wide difficulties, like "how can you make a game mode like battle royale that heavily uses randomness and variance to drive continued engagement while also wanting that game to be competitive, which requires the perception that the more skilled players will be the most successful". These are the real juicy ones that are very difficult and take a long time to work on, and often you never "solve" them, you just do what you can to find a compromise that works for your target audience. People love to talk about these ones because they are exciting and very visible. But these little mini problems like "how can we make it so players don't pick up an LSTAR then are unable to use it" are also super fascinating and take up tons of time too. They are everywhere, but they usually aren't visible to players. Doing things is almost always harder and more time consuming than you would think, even in dev it's just a fact that everyone underestimates how long things will take and overscopes how much they can do.
This is I think a big root cause of the disconnect that causes lots of "lazy devs" anger and the frustration which follows on our side. Stuff is really hard in ways that aren't at all obvious until you start actually having to build it or think about every possible use case. Externally people think things are much much easier than they are, and internally we aren't great at explaining why random things are actually super hard. (e.g. Doors are SO. FUCKING. HARD. Doors. They're just doors! How hard could it be to make a thing that swings open and closed! Oh man they're tough.) I hope me trying to come on and give some context here helps bridge that gap a little bit!
ID: gvdq984Thank you for your in depth reply! Unless I’m mistaken, this isn’t the first time you’ve talked about the L-Star conundrum, so I’m glad to hear it’s still on the radar.
I just thought about a potential solution, is there any reason it couldn’t work like this?
L-Star switches to having a conventional built-in “magazine” of the same capacity as the current overheat limit. Rampart gets her increased limit too of course. L-Star has a permanent “auto load” feature. The magazine rapidly refills itself at a rate matching the current cooldown speed whenever the player isn’t shooting. If players empty the mag, the overheat animation plays as normal, thus forcing a full “reload”.ID: gvduqx9This would also have the consequence of increasing code decoupling, as the current system relies on a very specific implementation of a magazine, while this solution just requires the normal magazine code with special rules for reloading.
It would also be more clear from a UI standpoint to have a visible number representing how many shots are left before overheat. It also allows for advanced play patterns like leaving a single shot in the mag to prevent an overheat and replenish ammo faster.
Finally, this would also allow the L-Star to use magazine attachments that could allow it to shoot more before overheating.
ID: gvducl4This seems like the best solution plus it also gives you an overview of how many bullets you can shoot until it overheats. In my opinion it's pretty difficult to know when it overheats but this change would make it way easier to keep track of the bullets.
ID: gvdpyzuThank you for confirming this. I remember you said it a while ago and tried to bring it up in the other thread request. Got absolutely torn to shreds over there lol.
ID: gvdqow5Just chiming in to say great answer and thanks for the explanation which goes above and beyond. Cheers.
Also, making the L-Star more fun than it already is gets you extra points.
ID: gvdotjyThis is why I’ve spent more money on apex than fifa in the last 2 years. The fact we can get an answer like this on a platform like Reddit is just so refreshing. Thank you.
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Controversial opinion: The L-Star is good, it just feels bad to use
ID: gvce8rkIts the dumb crosshair+ stupid projectile that blocks half your screen with brigth red balls + stupid ironsigths, dmg wise its pretty good but id rather not use it
ID: gvch3fxProjectiles are big so they easily hit your enemy and the crosshair represents that well so I can’t complain. Iron sights are a little fucked but I imagine I’m holding an R301 when I look down them so it isn’t too bad.
Biggest issue for me is that the flicker of the bullets when they go through Rampart’s screens are seizure inducing.
ID: gvchtxbThe recoil is ridiculous, iron-sights are terrible, DPS is average. How is it good
DPS is identical to a Spitfire and the Spitfire is miles ahead of it in terms of spread and recoil
ID: gvciqzaIt also has probably the slowest projectile speed making it useless anywhere beyond close range.
ID: gvcttvxIt strikes fear into those being fired at.
ID: gvdtpo8The weapon is so unusable that you're effectively never going to hit these kinds of numbers (and if so then not consistently), but the L-STAR actually has some of the best DPS in the game, beating even the R99 in TTK.
Numbers
ID: gvcik05you must not hold down the trigger on the gun then b/c it's an absolute laser after the first few rounds. it starts out with wild recoil then settles in. it's the design of the gun's recoil. it's not top tier but you can cook with it in closer to lower end of midrange with it.
ID: gvcj7sxRecoil is just a case of learning it tbh, you could say the same thing about the Flatline. DPS isn’t great but each bullet hits heavy and with a double headshot multiplier combined with the size of each bullet means that more of your shots will be hitting your opponent in the face and balls.
Plus no reloading which can save you in fights. You can actually melt enemies with the thing it just takes practice, trust me on this if Respawn decide to buff the L-Star to like one extra damage per shot or something it would become the gun everyone complains about by mid season.
ID: gvca4rfThe lstar is amazing with practice, maybe one of the best in the game. it does flatline damage with a higher rate of fire and never needs to reload as long as you give it 0.5-1 sec to cool down every 20 shots (28 as rampart), projectiles are huge so missing is forgiving and headshots are very easy to land + in a lot of lighting situations people can’t even see who they are being shot by, all they see is red.
the headshot multiplie
dmg drop off for headshots on this gun is crazy. I slap 3x on it and absolutely melt at mid range.People might not know this but it’s one of the few guns in the game that does not suffer mid air aim penalty. As an octane main I love launching myself with reckless abandon and being able to down or atleast break armor before I even land
But without practice, if you don’t know the recoil pattern, if you try to hipfire at mid and have no restraint then it is a brick lol.
ID: gvcj24eAs someone coming from titanfall this gun really fucks me up since I had it’s muscle memory of how long I could shoot it before it cooks dialed in and now it’s all out of whack.
Furthermore in titanfall it was almost BETTER to hip fire this thing at range rather than aim it since it was actually very accurate from the hip and you didn’t feel the recoil as much (I can almost swear there’s actually less if you hipfire in that game). Furthermore you didn’t have to deal with the downward jolt you got every time you let off the trigger if you were aiming. AND the big red balls didn’t block your own aiming view.
Granted a lot of these changes were made to make it balanced and relevant in AL verses TF/2 but it really feels like a totally different weapon coming from someone who had the L-Star as one of their most used pilot weapons.
Come to think of it, my lack of adjusting is probably the reason why I’m bad at this game...
ID: gvchhlzCalm down it’s nowhere near one of the best or else Pros, who could let’s be real could master most things on this game, would use it over anything else in the game.
ID: gvci7u6the L-STAR is something I actually prefer over the Devotion tbh. Ik the Devo is a laser but the L-STAR just requires a stock, optic and some ammo. Boom. Done. Nothing else needed. The problem is that it is very shaky and can't fire for that long. You have to hit your shots otherwise the overheat screws you over. Switching weapons also isn't that viable with it because you need the stock to speed it up. It just needs more ammo when you pick it up.
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I approve of this message
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yep. I have def died picking this thing up but not having a single bullet to fire.
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Would be difficult to spawn 20 ammo, since the gun has no mag.
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It should be possible to have the extend mag on the L-star, always having the same ammo when other get more when the game go on.
ID: gvdk903I think it should get to equip extended energymags. Slightly reduce its overheat cap and heat reduction rate at base and make it slightly better than Ramparts passive effect with a purple mag
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I fucking hate this gun
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the best toys don't come with batteries included.
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If this is like saying Bill Cosby’s biggest issue was that he had a poor taste in sweaters.
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How about the L Star gets a Buff. Let it have a barrel stabilizer or a choke. Gun sucks.
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The Lstar shouldnt actually spawn at all.
ID: gvci4t7I disagree with this statement, L-Star is an iconic weapon in the titanfall universe, it’s high rate of fire and infinite magazine make burst firing and good tracking a necessity but if you get good at it, infinite ammo can really help in a pinch
ID: gvcjz0uYeah, and its Total ass in Apex
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/mvh39v/the_lstar_should_spawn_with_20_ammo_already_in/
I’d like to see picking it up spawning a stack on the ground, similar to the stacks of ammo that spawned in that second chance mode. I guess that way it’s up to the player to arrange their backpack accordingly, and in turn doesn’t break the already established coding.
Edit: as a once only, if the gun has been picked up before, no ammo.