The more you think about it, the more you start to realize that greatly limiting high end armor and ammo is almost NECESSARY

1) Limiting high end ammo and armor brings the game closer in line with its intended vision

Everyone loves to talk about how this is a hardcore, survival, realistic shooter, where wits and intelligence matter. It doesn't really feel that way when it gets to the point where people have an endless supply of elite gear, high end stems, and top quality guns. People charge into their deaths with this stuff, and don't even care because they know that they have an unlimited amount of it right around the corner. (I'm not bashing the chad lifestyle, I actually greatly enjoy it and will come back to this in just a second)

Dying with elite gear would actually mean something if it just wasn't readily available, and had to be scavenged, crafted, or fought for.

2) All gear would instantly become much more usable if 5/6 tier armor and ammo were greatly restricted.

If you run AKs, when was the last time you ran PS ammo? The first 2 days of the wipe?

When the wipe period, which ends very quickly for a lot of people around here, is over, its straight to BS or Igolnik.

By making it so the only thing you can guarantee purchase with ease is tier 4 armor, you are still relatively threatened by most rounds. You aren't just a tank that can run around and eat rounds with ease. You could still engage in fast paced pvp too, since your average rounds would still be highly effective.

5) With the above point, the game becomes much more accessible to casuals.

I think the fact of the matter is, it takes a REALLY long time to get relevant in Tarkov. Opening the flea market late into a wipe, with a standard account, and without prior mission knowledge guarantees you're in for a long ride.

By reducing the availability of top tier ammo and armor, you give the common man a chance to actually do okay in combat. Obviously higher level traders should give you slightly better gear which gives you a slight edge, but I don't think it should be a complete blow out like it is now.

6) The crafts and miscellaneous items you find lying around will mean so much more, and lead to more interesting decisions in raid.

I can't tell you how many items I just straight up blow past in favor of more cost per slot items. In almost no situation is it more favorable to have junk over cold hard rubles.

I think it would be interesting if you picked up an expeditionary fuel can which is obviously valuable, but you stumble across a couple tubs of gun powder which can get you some high end ammo. Instead of just playing the calculator game to determine which is worth more, you now need to decide if you would rather have the extended power the fuel gives you, or would you like the rounds the powder gives you.

Just something to consider.

Edit; a commenter below said this and it really encapsulated a lot of what I’m trying to say

It would just make high tier shit special so youd have to save it for a reason not just save up money to print out 100 kits anytime you want. I think the idea here is to make level 4/shit level 5 armor the average tier 4 trader. And to make the ammo that pens these at a normal rate (non BS,M955,M61 etc). The idea is to make the norm, the norm and the highest tier something worth holding onto for labs or reserve or something. You might have to farm lower difficulty maps before you can start risking the higher tier maps. YOud also prob want to assign different overall loot values to the maps too or randomize it depending on the day so that theres a reason to bring certain types/levels of gear to those zones. Tarkov is supposed to have survival aspects, what you guys like right now is just COD with extra steps and a bit more realistic gunplay.

I’m not 100% on this but isn’t the abundance of all the gear there for testing purposes? I get the feeling that Tarkov will never be “balanced” or “completed”. It’s only there as a building block for their next game

the majority of players, even seasoned, are not running every raid in class6 that is false. even when playing labs, resort, dorms, reserve.

Most players are running good class 4 (tv110...) or mid tier class5 (redut, gen4...) a ok tier modded ak with armor piercing ammo. that make streamer / nolifer having a slight edge with their class6. but not that by much (like tanking 1 or 2 more bullets, which is good, but not insane)

the problem you describe is only met with player who don't have access to flea market. you can clearly see the problem early wipe, with streamer running tagilla + slick + ap-20 (low armor tier stomper), they one thorax everything, noone can get them.

while lvl 4 ragman barter are a clearly op and need higher overall price, harshly reducing access to class5 / armor piercing ammo will mostly affect seasoned, casuals, making mr streamer totaly unkillable, creating the exact problem you are talking about.

it will not make any difference for casual vs casual or seasoned vs seasoned combat, since mid tier ammo vs class 4 = exact same ttk of high tier ammo vs class5 (it could be even lower since mid tier ammo have higher damage but lower piercing...)

Limiting Gear / Ammo only hurts the Casual Player / New Player.

I semi-agree with what you are saying, however Chads will be Chads. They use the first good gear set they get to go out and get more good gear. Generally they have the time / skill to accumulate the gear. If the casual is limited even further they have no chance competing with high level PMC's. No matter how much gear / ammo is limited, if it spawns it will be used / stockpiled by competent players.

At least at the moment, as soon as you hit level 15 you can some what compete with Meta Gear through the fact you can purchase good ammo.

No not really. The more I think about it. The more I realize the reddit community doesn't actually play the game.

Even if they greatly limit it, the haves and have nots will still remain the same. If you play a game a lot, you will level faster and get access to good stuff faster. Even if they make it super hard to get xyz gear, they will get it and wreck your shit with it. Just be glad it's available to Timmy's at 15 too.

Sounds like you want more rng in the game, forcing players to run shit ammo only to run into someone with high tier gear sounds stupid. Players who earn their loot should be able to use it however they want. It's how tarkov works. Some players stay broke and others earn their gear, stop trying to limit those players to fit your playstyle.

You talk about high tier armor being a complete blowout... Maybe for you? I've died plenty of times with high tier gear. I've killed plenty of players with a pistol running pst who had high tier gear. You make it sound like we're playing different games. Gear doesn't matter as much as you think, you're just bad if you can't kill them.

All these posts show how much everyone thinks gear>map knowledge and gun skill. mid tier ammo does pretty decent flesh damage and most helmets don’t reliably stop basic rounds. It’s really not that hard to pick your fights if you have the overall game knowledge to help you. game knowledge trumps even the best gear.

My guess is that this change isn't coming until the game is relatively feature complete. The devs need to collect data for balance purposes and the best way to do that is by keeping the numbers of these items relatively high.

You should probably do more thinking then, clearly you haven't done enough of it.

By reducing the availability of top tier ammo and armor, you give the common man a chance to actually do okay in combat.

Nothing could be further from the truth. It's literally the polar opposite lmfao. All this does is give grinders even more of an advantage.

Fact of the matter is you CANNOT equalize the experiences of people who grind hundreds of hours every wipe and more casual players. The gap is not really closable without loot being reasonably abundant and mechanics like the flea. By going overboard and messing with the already delicate risk-reward of Tarkov you run the risk of running it into the ground, like we've seen from the previous round of loot nerfs when the game was turned into a boring ghost town. We've already seen firsthand the effects of nerfing things like loot and gear availability to the point where scarcity becomes a problem. Do you actually play the game? I cannot imagine queueing up some Interchange raids right now and coming out with the conclusion that the game should be even deader and less rewarding than before.

I don't get where this idea of "scarcity good" comes from. Yeah it fits with the game's aesthetic but scarcity is not actually fun in practice. Tarkov is enjoyable because it presents you with the illusion of scarcity while letting you transcend that and progress by gaining loot. If every single raid was full of Slick/Exfil/Altyns you might have a point, but this is obviously nowhere close to being the case...this game needs MORE people running gear and PvPing, not less.

it will rise current mid tier ammoe and armor right to the top and you will get the same situation. it will change nothing.

The more things change the more they stay the same?

we don’t need to balance filler content

Okay and when will you realize that making ammo and armor that is already barely used more rare will just make the game more boring and less playable? I keep seeing people wanting these "hardcore" changes which in reality is just wanting the game to be more annoying and unplayable.

I saw a pretty sweet comment on here a little while back that having something similar to metro where bullets could also act as a currency. Maybe this would show ammo to be a bit more valuable and in turn more expensive / harder to aquire.

I agree that ammo is heavily required if you want to kill folks quickly AT ALL. I'm a level 23 and this is my first wipe ever and am just now feeling comfortable in PMC fights. It's night and day shooting the same gun with different ammo.

Although folks are saying it's gonna be different when the game is out, how do you prevent people from grinding scavs or quests in a few days to rack up rouble count for expensive stuff. I don't see how things can be set to a similar playing field without a wipe to reset everyone.

You'd be better off letting people into the flea earlier vs rearrange the ammo and armor meta.

*cough git rid of fleamarket = game git gud

Yes yes yes yes, for some reason so many people just want to play COD with extra steps. This is supposed to be about scrounging shit together not meta cucks.

Everyone loves to talk about how this is a hardcore, survival, realistic shooter, where wits and intelligence matter

People love doing this because it makes them feel better about playing a looter shooter with a tactical varnish.

Generally agreed

The issue is that the impact of ammo type in this game is FAR too large

IRL, if i have M855 loaded in my IRL rifle, i can drop you just as easy as if i had M995, no matter what armor you wear

IRL: Armor doesnt win fights, it reduces fatalities

Thats a big distinction

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Plate hitboxes should address a LOT of the issues, by letting a LOT more damage get past your armor, meaning an Ak loaded with HollowPoints will still be VERY dangerous against an Altyn/Slick player, even if they aim center mass, as they should

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Ive said it for years, the benefit of good armo