Shoreline and Woods should be the maps for early quests, not Customs.

1 : Anonymous2021/11/22 09:56 ID: qzi1be

First of all, I don't hate customs, I think it is a good map and perfect for pvp. But it doesn't make much sense now to have all the early quests on the most popular pvp map. Early wipe its not a big deal, but a new player trying that shit mid wipe is just daunting for most of them. Which leads to them quitting.

Woods and shoreline are perfect for new players because they are both very balanced, the low amount of choke points and the size of the map means the new players has a better chance of surviving and completing quests.

Not to mention I think many people are sick of the current quest progression, I hate doing quests in customs, Id rather choose to go there at freewill for pvp, rather than be forced to play it for the xp grind.

Feel free to disagree, just a semi casual players opinion.

2 : Anonymous2021/11/22 10:11 ID: hlmg7nn

If shoreline was for noob quests they would all come in here and complain about the tunnel camping chads, considering it may very well end up being your only extract 2/3 raids

ID: hlnticu

Shoreline just needs more extracts overall though.

ID: hlnnwoi

You could counter that with more randomized extracts.

ID: hloaao9

But the thing no one is considering is that Customs has become such a great PVP map because there is a predictable flow of players (typically undergeared) moving in a predictable pattern... switching the beginner quests to another map will simply move PVPers to a new map.

ID: hlnook8

I run shoreline as my main map. I've been extract camped once, maybe twice over 100+ raids as a pmc.

ID: hloauuh

I have never been extract camped once this wipe. Now I will since I posted thus though.

ID: hlnwc7x

Idk, I’ve been camped maybe 3-4 times in my 1700 hours and probably 50% of my raids are shoreline

ID: hloh11c

Yeah I haven't experienced much tunnel camping. It is VERY predictable for someone to be on the cliff since it is so easily accessible. I think most expect someone to be up there so always look, deterring the campers.

3 : Anonymous2021/11/22 12:38 ID: hlmrk6s

Shoreline lmao.

A giant, empty map where you can get sniped not even 4 minutes off spawn on the east side where the only point of interest is a PvP slugfest rivaling dorms.

ID: hlnn5wo

Totally agreed lol. Shoreline is NOT a good map and especially not for new players. I think the people that try to pimp it out to newer players are the guys that do nothing but pistol stash runs to make money until the last week of the wipe. It's good for that, but I would hardly call that fun for most people.

ID: hlnpv5c

I spent my first Wipe mostly on Shoreline, it was great fort avoiding PvP, doing Stash Runs or farm Scavs, maybe Woods is even better for all of that, but its also much harder to navigate when you dont know the Map.

Every time i went on Customs it was a 2 minute experience or just stting silent in a corner and try to get stuff done later on.

People prefer different things, but to me Woods and Shoreline feel much more relaxed compared to Customs. As a new Player and doing Quest.

ID: hlnnzx2

Yeah, I think there's "fun" aspects depending on how you enjoy the game but I think for the average joe (which isn't really ever going to be represented on this sub) it's exhausting.

As I keep delving further into anecdote, I split play time between about 4 RL friends and then helping administrate a large discord. Of my RL friends who don't spend any time on Reddit but are fairly good players (60%+ SR, 5+ K/D over 100s of matches), all of them will run Customs above pretty much any map, with Woods and Interchange next up.

Of the "average player" on a community discord - say <50% SR and a <4 KD, I still see a heavy bias towards Customs with Woods a close second, especially for those who research money making. I never see much interest in Shoreline other than multiple-wipe players who've made a home in either Reserve or pistol cacheing as you suggest.

4 : Anonymous2021/11/22 11:40 ID: hlmmmus

Customs is "the most popular PvP map" because of the quests. You move the quests, you'll likely just move the problem. Besides, Customs is way easier to navigate than woods, and arguably shoreline too. A new player has way more points of interest to navigate by on customs, especially than on woods.

ID: hlnfum3

Imagine the new player experience. 99% of Reddit posts would be "I'm trying to do my quests but I keep dying without even seeing where I got shot from" lol.

ID: hlp1pve

100% this. Yeah, you'll get into gunfights on customs, and as a new player you'll probably lose them.

But I remember being that new player on customs and dying to someone like 10m away often. And then I remember the first visits to woods and just "head,eyes"...."head,nape."

Shoreline is gonna be a lot of the same, too, if they moved the quests there.

ID: hlnj6y0

As a new player I actually struggled with learning Customs, I dont know why but I extracted on Shoreline and Woods within my first attempts but not on Customs

ID: hln3xqy

both woods and shoreline also have weak extracts/spawns. if all the early quests forced everyone onto those maps im sure wed see a ton of posts of people getting tunnel camped, blown up by mines 10ft from where they spawned, getting mia because they cant find the extract, etc.

customs at least has multiple options with conditions no matter where you spawn. its more difficult but its easier to learn in just a few raids and teaches better habits than woods or shoreline.

5 : Anonymous2021/11/22 10:25 ID: hlmh6i1

I get that customs is quite punishing to play as a new player BUT for me at least, it was a trial by fire to get competent. Woods raids I could do 3/4 raids in a row without ever seeing anyone which is cool and all, but as a new player i'm not going to get any better at one of the biggest aspects of the game if all I do is run around a giant map with next to no actual action ever. Once you get through that initial 'what the fuck is going on' customs is lowkey great. You can go for the stay out of the way playstyle, hit your stashes and leave, or just full send the hot spots. Personally it's my favorite map specifically because it forced me to play it so often early wipe.

ID: hlmuimc

There are different types of trials by fire. And this is not the good kind. Here are some basic game development principles:

- you want to teach players mechanics one by one (or close)

- you want difficulty to ramp up steadily

- you want to encourage player choice in the difficulty of the game

Just applying these, Customs fails as a rookie map quite a bit. You need to learn everything at once, because Customs has everything: immediate spawn fights, compulsory fights at all ranges (CQC, mid and long), etc. That's what makes it a great late-game map. But, for a rookie, it's overwhelming and can teach a number of bad habits, because you don't get to focus on improving in one thing, as you need to do everything at once.

On shoreline and Woods, there are clearly less and more dangerous routes and areas. If you avoid the resort for the first 15 minutes, you're pretty much clear of all the lategame players. Same with the sawmill on the Woods. So, a new player can take it slow, take safer routes, and focus on learning certain skills. Then, when they feel more confident, they can start taking more risks for more lucrative gains. This also means that the player can focus on mid-to-long range fights for the first raids, and then start playing around with CQC when he or she is ready.

So, what you would want from a trial of fire is that it forces you to engage with the full extent of some skill-set, until you get good enough to pass muster, but it doesn't needlessly muddy the situation, making learning a confusing and unpleasant experience.

ID: hlmx3hn

Can’t bring myself to like woods no matter how much I play it. Without knowing areas you would expect to see people, you could just get murdered from ages away without ever even seeing someone. I avoid woods like the plague apart from questing because even knowing where to expect people I struggle massively to distinguish players from the shrub line. Shoreline for me is just boring as a map, there is next to nothing ever happening. Customs, to me at least gives you samples of everything you’d need to practice as you say. Close combat, distance fights, tight space manoeuvring and fighting in dorms etc. I just feel like the only things you’re going to learn as a new player on woods, is that you don’t like woods lol

6 : Anonymous2021/11/22 11:46 ID: hlmn37z

I feel like shoreline has the most quests on it of every map.

ID: hlmw065

I think it does and most of them are the same. Go to room XXX in resort and grab some item.

ID: hlmwjhm

not to mention they really are the same. go find therapists friends, go back and mark them and find the trading posts and go back and mark them.

7 : Anonymous2021/11/22 12:30 ID: hlmquxa

if this game would have thrown me into woods or shoreline of all maps i would have quit it instantly. hate those annoying big maps in which half your gameplay is running and praying that nobody sits in a bush.

ID: hlmw2x8

They're also harder to navigate due to how large they are. Customs is a much easier map to learn how to get around on.

ID: hlnfy4a

Yeah especially since the compass doesn't come until after several quests.

8 : Anonymous2021/11/22 11:48 ID: hlmn8o6

fuck no im not doing no quests on shoreline

9 : Anonymous2021/11/22 10:26 ID: hlmh9er

I think woods is a good overall map. People like me who like to hunt can usually find players, but they have the ability to escape and out flank because of the lack of choke points. Hot spots are approachable from all directions and there is an abundance of cover and concealment.

It feels a little unfair to know the map in and out, all the sneaky spots that no one checks, but I think that can apply to any map.

10 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:01 ID: hlmtrso

The problem is Customs is simply just the best map - not too big where you'll never get any PvP experience as a new player, not too small where you'll just get slaughtered like Factory, plenty of loot, plenty of choke points that forces players to learn the ebb and flow of a raid (when & where to run/anticipate people), plenty of quest locations instead of 17 quests crammed into 1 building or putting a fetch quest item in the middle of fucking Narnia, etc. It attracts all levels of players, meaning timmies will end up running into chads.

If you put quests on big maps where it's arguably 'safer' (not at all safe for new players who would just wander in the open and get sniped), you'll teach them bad habits until they hit lvl 20 and suddenly you bring them onto Customs with 0 route planning skills and they'll just hit a wall.

11 : Anonymous2021/11/22 10:30 ID: hlmhkea

Look your not wrong, I started mid wipe and go absolutely stomped on trying to customs tasks. It was punishing and demoralising but I think it made me better at the game overall. Also I believe these quests will only be side quests to the main quest line when the full release comes out, so there’s that.

12 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:20 ID: hlmvozb

A few years ago -- when i first started playing -- Shoreline was my very first map. I don't know about woods but Shoreline honestly introduced Tarkov perfectly for me.

Honestly Customs is OK too but leads to too much "trail by fire" in my opinion. In the beginning of wipes, shoreline is honestly the easiest map to avoid combat BUT is the easiest map to know where to find it

13 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:29 ID: hlmwnk7

Been in Tarkov since the first week of early access. And I agree with you.

The reason customs/factory are the spots for early missions is because those were the only maps we had at first. But here we are many wipes later with more map options and still forced to play like try hards everyday from the start of the wipe in order to complete "easy quests" without running into Chads camping a watch spawn for new player kills.

I love the unforgiving nature of this game, but I don't think forcing new players into choke points to loot some entry level quest items is a great model. So many quests on customs have you hitting dorms, and I can't even imagine being a new player trying to figure out where to go while getting dicked down by 5 man Chad squads hiding in the hallways.

Back in the day, when M4's we're few and far between and most of us were running with a grach and a dream it made sense, now I think it's worth revisiting. Woods is a great option as well as shoreline and I'd love to see it. I struggled when I started too, but it's not the same as it was back then.

14 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:35 ID: hlmxcwl

What about giving players more choices? Broaden the quest tree a bit so they don't NEED to do a bullshit customs quest, or find some bullshit key, they can go to another map and do the same thing

15 : Anonymous2021/11/22 16:22 ID: hlnjbnu

Yes, Shoreline, the map filled to the brim with chads going to the resort, should be the noob quest map. Also the map with the lowest average framerate and most boring layout. Customs is easy to get the hang of, no big loot areas where chads are running around and very easy to navigate.

ID: hlnm798

Yeah I'm reading the post thinking I've always been miserable on shoreline doing quests lmao

16 : Anonymous2021/11/22 11:57 ID: hlmnyfq

Dust the thermals off bois these timmys need a welcoming to tarky

17 : Anonymous2021/11/22 11:25 ID: hlmlgw8

This guy really saying that shoreline the paradise for snipers and camper and high end gear should become early wipe while custom the poor mans map should go somewhere else

18 : Anonymous2021/11/22 11:58 ID: hlmo285

How to not make new players quit 1. Put them on a map that is hard to navigate and you can get spawnsniped/pushed 10 seconds into a raid 2. They quit 3. ???

ID: hlmtxxx
Profit because BSG don't do refunds.
19 : Anonymous2021/11/22 11:00 ID: hlmjm0v

I haven’t quit yet. My first wipe. Customs kicks my add. Literally made me so broke I could only scav and knife ninja. Still playing. Not discouraged. Quests are a part of the game. But you can also just not do them and enjoy yourself. It’s just a game

ID: hlmkoqu

True enjoing the game is most important. But some find the game far more enjoyable once the flea market is unlocked. Hence doing quests to get xp

20 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:36 ID: hlmxf34

Daily and weekly quests should relieve a little pressure from Customs early wipe. You'll have some options to at least get XP a little faster to open the flea market. Still have to do the main quests for trader rep and unlocking items, but at least you can make some headway just doing extract and fetch dailies.

21 : Anonymous2021/11/22 12:43 ID: hlms049

yes, send out a newb with naked gun into maps that require long range optics and LoS awareness, that'll help.

22 : Anonymous2021/11/22 12:07 ID: hlmotdq

I'd love to see more new players on Woods. I'm sure other people doing Jaeger quests would agree.

I think the problem with early Customs quests is that half of them make people go to dorms. Other than that, Woods and Shoreline are not much safer, at least for most of the quests we currently have on those maps.

23 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:15 ID: hlmv75u

Most of the early quests are on shoreline. If you push punisher early, you will be on shoreline allot. Most of the early quests are also on woods. Most people start the wipe sitting in bushes not questing. I'm questing from the rip in this game. I like having access to ammo.

24 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:19 ID: hlmvkhv

Shoreline is much rougher than Customs. There's one giant chokepoint and that is the resort. Most of the quests end up there and it's a PVP hot zone. It's also really rough if you're at a gear defecit because of all the long sightlines. Once you learn it, Customs isn't that bad.

25 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:32 ID: hlmx0ks

Yeah, no, both of those maps are more annoying than customs. Trying to figure out shit on those maps as a newbie no thanks. I hate being there even as a player of 3-4 years. Sniped from across the map within mere moments. Those maps are basically walking simulators. And unless you hit the hotspots or know stashes at least IMO are loot poor.

26 : Anonymous2021/11/22 13:50 ID: hlmz0xx

Woods and shorline should be the only Maps for Quests The other Maps are just trash

27 : Anonymous2021/11/22 14:03 ID: hln0hzx

customs is a pvp map because it has all the early quests. Its a map that will always be populated because any newer playershave to go to it. So if you want to find people to kill you go to customs. If you moved the early quests to shoreline... then shoreline would become the most popular map.

28 : Anonymous2021/11/22 14:07 ID: hln104e

But it doesn't make much sense now to have all the early quests on the most popular pvp map

it does make sense because customs and tasks for it were added before release of woods and shoreline


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