- Some newer players won't have seen this before, clip from the 2015 announcement trailer, which perfectly captures the word I am trying to spread in Tarkov that the game isn't all about KOS. USEC and BEAR working together against Scavs. Players work together = more loot, less deaths = profit
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"it is not enough that I must succeed, others must fail"
ID: gzyxxwrID: gzyygfoIf more people were aware this is an option available within the game and open to the idea of trust then trust would be less of an issue. If that makes sense haha!
ID: gzzayuyPart of that is due to the current state of the game as well. With VOIP and future PMC karma systems I could see that changing.
ID: h00j8gwThis , I tried for a long time to trust others and got shot in the back of the head because people are just too curious to see what I may or may not have found.. now I shoot first , to see what they may or may not have found.
ID: gzzqw1y“It’s not about winning, it’s about making sure all the other teams don’t get to have any fun.”
ID: gzzkrkz“Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
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Classic prisoner's dilemma.
If PMCs didn't kill eachother we would all make more $.
But the one who breaks the rule would make all the $.
ID: gzz6f3qthere's a finite amount of loot in a map though, so the more pmcs survive, the less loot each person gets
ID: gzz7jdkThat's if you assume that everyone loots the whole map. Imo looting even a little is worth more than most player gear
ID: gzzkle1I don’t think many players kill other players for $ though. I don’t even bring a bag into raids anymore and I haven’t since week 3 of the wipe. What makes the game fun to me is strictly the PvP; making money and looting is fun for maybe the first 2 weeks of the wipe then there’s a Bitcoin farm and $50M saved up and now there’s no need to worry about loot. Without the PvP interactions, the movement, the gunplay, Tarkov would be stale.
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I once had an experience I will never forget, I was doing a hatchet run to do a task on shoreline, had to go to the roof of the resort for Signal Pt. 3. On my way in a geared person saw me, but didn't shoot, I hid out of fear and then I heard "Не стрелај!", so I came out of cover. He threw me a gun and a helmet, opened rooms and helped me complete 2 or 3 tasks I had for there. He helped me get to exfil and threw me his kit aswell (He was too lazy to exfil on the other side of the map). I messaged him afterwards thanking him and he simply thanked me back for not shooting him when I had chances to. I feel like that's Tarkov at it's best.
ID: h00q49fThat‘s why i think ingame voice would be a decent idea, but it could be exploited so easily
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What you ignore is the extreme circumstance shown in that video. Both the USEC and BEAR just lost all their team mates and realize they are swarmed by scavs. They did not work together because they wanted to, they did so because they had to.
When you go into a raid in Tarkov, you are never in this spot. Aside from the early stages of a wipe, you have your favorite gun, good ammo, good armor, all the nades and meds you ever need and on top the stupid soft skills that turn you into a super human anyways.
There is no NEED to really team up with other players and considering the massive risk it is to even try, naturally, it simply is not a good idea.
I am not saying never do or try it, I met my current group by simply reaching out to one on labs asking for a cease fire which we both honored. We now play Tarkov together for over a year (group of 5). So it can work - but the risk is insane and the NEED is still not there - unlike in the video.
My 2 cents.
ID: gzz417gHey, that's super cool man! I met 4 I play with regularly by murdering them on factory lol. Then I messaged them to see if they needed someone to show them the ropes.
ID: gzzuom2That's another way to make friends I guess. Kill them. 😀
ID: h00cp6mBecause it's not hardcore enough. But more like everyone is using their favorite meta loadout every raid because of the flea market. Not because of bitcoin. It's not a Hardcore Survival game anymore in which you need to scavenge and explore. It's a run to these meta loot spots. Put as much as possible up your ass. Extract. Barter everything until level 10. You get level 10. Flea market unlocked you can buy anything. Scavenging and exploring doesn't exist anymore.
Searching for ammo because you don't have any doesn't exist. Everyone has top 3 ammo of every caliber. Remove Flea Market and people will be walking around with 60 shitty ps ammo scavenging for some good shit. Instead of everyone best armor best bullets. 0.25 second fights.
You unlock flea market and then sell everything until you have a couple million and fully upgraded hideout.
Removing flea market. Adding dynamic loot spawns will fix the whole game. Then you can start with the karma and story systems.
The game is not a hardcore survival anymore.
It's COD on crack with 100 extra steps and a lot more bullshit.
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I kinda put this on BSG really. From the beginning they’ve wanted a game that was primarily PVE with PVP as the secondary objective and they’ve focused on adding content in the way of maps, loot and guns instead of the PVE content they want to be the main bit of gameplay in the future.
I understand why of course, the PVE stuff is a lot more difficult to add and appease people with. You can dump a few new guns and quests into a patch and your entire playerbase (generally) is appeased for a few months.
A lot of people don’t think they’ll ever get the game to how they want it, but I see Nikita and I hear what he’s been saying and for him I think the vision has changed only minimally.
I think we’ll get the Tarkov Nikita envisions (that being PVE and cooperation with other people the main deal) but I think we’re going to whittle back down to the original playerbase like it was before the “Twitch Drop Pop”.
A lot of people are going to be very angry if/when Tarkov starts to become what it was intended to become in the beginning. Me personally I’m along for whatever ride Nikita gives me a ticket for. At this point I’m 3400 hours into the game after several years and I’ve well enjoyed that much time for 150$
ID: gzzchn3The maps are not nearly large enough to bring about any meaningful PvE content imo. BSG talking about adding various other factions like UNTAR, RUAF, RUSF maps are fairly crowded already.
ID: gzzyl2dAre you joking? I feel like there need to be 10x the number of AI running around and half the number of players. The maps are huge and empty for the most part, besides like one and maybe two hotspots per map.
ID: gzzpfyoi think the maps could definitely use a bump in activity, and it doesnt have to be a permanent addition. they could dynamically spawn in/out enemies like they do raiders once a certain event trigger is hit.
imo the maps desperately need more random events like factions patrolling through areas. i can often go through a raid and barely see anyone or anything these days
ID: gzzgpeeI disagree, they're needs to be like 3x as many scavs/raiders for people to even dream about working together with randoms
ID: gzzcv3wYeah I’m interested to see how that works. The PVE content I’ve mainly heard is stuff like you and your squad moving through the map and hitting points, clearing and holding objectives, etc, and then escaping. I think most of the maps we have now could hold it fairly well personally but I also understand why people would think differently.
I’m imagining those AI would work somewhat similar to the Cultists in that they have X% spawn chance and won’t always show up to help with crowding.
Suppose time will tell
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There is a reason you can squad up before going into a raid. Why trust some random person I can't communicate with properly in a raid when I can squad up with people I trust before a raid?
In a raid the only value other players have is the loot they carry and you don't know what that value is until they are dead.
ID: gzz7g9xI fly solo. This is one reason why I hate the game.
People come fully equppied with friends backing them up. While I am solo giving them free loot.
ID: gzz8bvyI feel this to an extent. I don’t mind teams of two. I have even taken out a team of 3 once... but I think anything larger than that is just pain. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve solo’d into Labs just to run into a team of 4-5 fully geared Chad’s who Rock Paper Scissors over my excellent gear
ID: gzza3k7that’s the most fun the game has to offer. playing shoreline and solo fighting a 5-man is the best pvp the game has.
ID: gzz8fguTbh Tarkov is one of those rare games nowadays where more people doesn't always equal better odds.
ID: gzzf329I've had some of the coolest encounters teaming up with random. It doesn't happen often but when it does its really fun, to me anyway.
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I don't know about you but if other players are surviving the raid, that means they are walking out of the raid with MY loot. Until there's a penalty for killing on sight, everyone dies.
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Same thing happened in the raid series to some extent, bear and usec work together to get out
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I think people would be more kind if the first thing they were put into wasn't being ass fucked in Customs. Honestly after that I lost my humanity.
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That idea is fundamentally flawed. Especially in a game like tarkov. Cooperation is exclusively for friends, and high level players, who don't mind losing loot, and are bored, and want to give it a try.
Most low, to medium, and even high level players cannot afford, or simply cannot be bothered to try to be friendly towards players. Since it only takes 1 shot to lose an entire load out.
As it stands now, the idea of coop between randoms is a fantasy.
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If the game was hard and teamwork was more valuable maybe people would work together but it’s not.
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Sometimes I watch this video on the TV in my hideout
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VOIP and being able to heal other players will change the game but not too much. There is still going to be loads of KOS and their will be more betrayal, but it's gonna be different.
In DayZ there are some big tells that someone is going to try and fuck you over. One is when you are talking to them and they take a few seconds too long to respond to a question or statement, usually that means they are working with someone else over discord or something. But things like that is what makes DayZ the nber one game, imo, for player interactions. I think Tarkov is going to eventually be in the same spot, but we need some patches before then.
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They may not share a language or nationality, but those two dudes are now Brothers-In-Arms
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Voip would make this somewhat more doable
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I guess this is all easily explained by how bad PvE is.
1) It‘s not interesting: The AI is completely stupid, therefore no interesting gunfights. Those can only be had against other players.
2) It‘s not hard: Once you understand how the AI works it‘s relatively easy to kill them on your own.
3) It‘s not worth it: PvE loot is somewhere between complete crap (random Scavs) or decent for early mid game (Bosses) at max.
Fix those three things and players will have an incentive to work together.
If the firefights against AI are fair and fun and the most valuable loot is only be gained by killing Scav bosses, however as a player you don’t stand any chance to win an encounter on your own, then the dynamic on the battlefield will change quickly.
Keep it the way it is and fights against other players will always be more fun and more worthwhile (in regards to time spent ingame).
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Yeah no. Without strong positive and negative reinforcement, this will never happen. There are plenty of reasons for this:
Players have no reason to trust one another. You don't know them and they don't know you. You may recognize names now and then, but you aren't making or maintaining relationships with anyone. There are no consequences for killing other players. You are out the ammo you bought and you attract a lot of attention and that is it. The cops aren't coming, you don't lose any sort of reputation, your friends don't think less of you. There are significant rewards for killing other players. Now their loot is your loot, there is one less potential threat in the raid, you get xp, task progress and maybe some cool clips for your channel or stream or whatever. Important to note that player inventories have the highest loot density in any raid. People are amazing filters. Fights are often over in a fraction of a second. Especially in close quarters, you don't have time to make a judgement call. That dude coming down the hall is probably coming around the corner shooting and if you don't kill him fast enough you're dead.Choosing violence reduces risk and makes money at no real cost, but choosing peace is likely just going to get you killed.
Also winning a fight is a satisfying ego boost and most people aren't losing sleep over the fact that that requires someone else to lose.
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This game is in dire need of proxy voip and a reputation system.
ID: h002ofya rep system is a really neat idea. The question is, how do you make the rep visible between players. uniform patches maybe.
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I'm a brand new player (Just hit 16), and the notion that you want people to play together on a map is silly. What tools are we given besides lobby party forming to achieve this? Risk our gear (and time essentially since it takes so long to get into a game) holding off on a PMC vs PMC engagement hoping that they are also feeling friendly? Fuck that. If you're not in my party then you're a target plain and simple.
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This game will never not be kos, once that cat has been let out of the bag it doesn't go back in
Only way they can get it to work is if bad karma is crippling if it's just a slap on the wrist then it will be ignored
ID: gzz61z4Karma is frankly a ridculous idea for a game that revolves around having gunfights over junk. I dont understand why people want scav karma, scavs are shithead looters running around a post apoloclyptic wasteland trying to survive, why punish them for acting like it?
ID: gzz6cmsO believe me I'm the same way, the loading screen lore even says scavs will kill each other over better gear.
Personally don't see karma working like BS wants it to
ID: h004dkvIt'll never not be KOS because people like me literally play to KOS.
Like to me the point of looting and wealth building is to make me a more effective shooter against the most difficult adversaries.
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There needs to be tougher n larger amounts of scavs for this to work tho. Like pose a greater or equal amount of threat with other pmcs.
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Unless there's fundamental changes made to the progression system moving the metrics for success away from acquiring loot by a large margin and survival is incentives by that same margin this will never become reality.
Right now that paradigm is ass backwards.
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I haven't played much, but easily a few hundred hours if I were to guess.
Only once, where I was a scav, did other armed scavs play nice. We even extracted together.
I don't think this sort of thing will happen that much until both the karma system is added, as well as VOIP.
People use their voice lines, but you never know if it's a joke or not. Most times it's fake, like "cease fire".
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It's not that, it's the risk others pose. You simply cannot trust people.