I am, not exaggerating, quite scared this game will suffer the same fate PUBG did

1 : Anonymous2021/08/21 15:58 ID: p8ty9q

PUBG was (in my opinion) one of, if not the, best FPS games I've ever played, which I also played at a competitive level. Do whatever you can to survive, you have one life. Tarkov is the only other game that can give me adrenaline rushes thousands of hours in. Unfortunately that game got crippled by desync and cheaters. When I pick up the game now, it is smooth as butter and little to no cheaters. The problem is no one really plays the game or takes it seriously anymore. The devs took literally 2-3 years to fix the problems the community bitched about for ages despite having cashflow BEYONBD BELIEF. Now it is almost nonexistent on twitch and there are few people that actively talk about the game.

I fully understand that silence from BSG can be advantageous so cheaters don't know when bans are coming. I really do. But honestly, I just want to say that from a consumer's perspective trying to beta test the game, it is embarrassing seeing top twitch streamers die multiple times in a row to cheaters in front of an audience of thousands. I hear that many hours a day and a dedicated team is spent trying to combat this issue, but I am losing faith because it's been one and a half months of insanity and no results that I can tangibly see.

If you aren't going to fix the cheating problem now, you need to prioritize fixing the desync. Because right now it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell the difference between a cheater and server desync. This was the same shit that drove PUBG into the ground beyond recovery. If you want us to ACCURATELY report cheaters to HELP YOU, you need to fix the DESYNC FIRST.

Unfortunately we all love this game so much that we put up with it for now. But at a certain point, I am worried that Nikita's larger vision for this game will not reach fruition to a large audience past launch.

Edit 1: even though not the point of the post, I'm triggering a lot of people by saying PUBG was awesome. I'm sorry but that game gave me insane replay value and I laughed my ass off so many times playing it. You don't have to share the same opinion I do. That's why I said "in my opinion". Calm down.

2 : Anonymous2021/08/21 17:21 ID: h9t5x44

Yeah PUBG was fun when it had millions of players, now it's a boring sweatfest plagued with Fortnite skins and Chinese cheaters

ID: h9trx23

The advantage that Tarkov has is that it doesn't require as many players for it to work well.

ID: h9tsrac

I’d argue that less players are better, I really enjoy the late wipe when no ones playing much and you get a ton of slow raid so you can run around and snipe scavs and loot things you need. It’s a more laid back way to play and I loved back in the day when you would run into only a couple players top per raid

ID: h9tle1e

you just described what mid-late wipe is

ID: h9tmbbz

How is mid-late wipe plagued with Fortnite skins?

ID: h9tyiai

Yep, this, had nothing to do with desync for me or any of my friends and we played quite a bit. In fact, apart from a few isolated instances typically tied to fresh patch issues, we never had any issues with it.

Frankly the biggest reason we left PUBG was the maps. Erangel is a wonderfully crafted map that worked on so many levels. The desert one that came next was fucking horrible. We played for a while, then repeatedly left queues to get Erangel and in the end we got tired of the bullshit.

It was all downhill from there with skins, crappy mechanics and terrible maps you were forced to play.

3 : Anonymous2021/08/21 19:17 ID: h9tl9xk

how dare you question the survivability of the bess game ever? its not like i paid 3 AAA game price for 'dlcs' which will come out in 2028 elections, its just its the bess game ever and i will downvote your post to show how wrong you are. BYE

4 : Anonymous2021/08/21 16:17 ID: h9sxbiy

Real money transactions are the cancer of this game, when people stop paying for items or carries the game will be like any other, some kids hacking cause they want to be recognized by their friends as good players and nothing else. Hackers exist because people are funding them and i would bet there are a lot of ppl funding hackers otherwise they would gave up.

ID: h9tf6s6

I keep seeing posts like this, how do you know it happens at such high rates?

not judging i’m just curious because I’m a noob

ID: h9thnnn

My friends have joined servers with cheaters, and they've watched a notorious Tarkov cheater who streams on Twitch for months at a time without being banned, and there are people getting actively carried and actually paying for it. There's a reason there's so many listings for it, and that's because it sells well.

Edit: just to clarify, none of us have actually purchased services or any of that. they joined that streamer's discord and a couple others that all advertised those services.

ID: h9tg4rg

When u can buy in game items on fucking ebay, its all said.

ID: h9tfqcx

There have been several interviews with cheaters who explain how much money they actually make from selling in game items or giving carries in game where they wipe lobbies.

You only have to look on certain popular trading websites to see how many cunts are selling in game items and the prices they charge.

Unfortunately BSG have accidently created the perfect game for cheaters and RMT's. A looter shooter with semi-perma death mechanics where rare items have absurd in game value.

ID: h9tfovj

A lot of community members have done tests on here.

5 : Anonymous2021/08/21 16:32 ID: h9szeb5

I'm surprised the flame you're getting for this post. I too do not want EFT to go the way of PUBG.

However, I believe that PUBG died because of stutters, hit reg issues, and desync, not cheaters. When the big streamers stopped caring about PUBG it died.

As long as EFT has some big names (for now it does) it will be relevant. Once those names move on (and a lot of them are), it will fall to the wayside and make room for the next game.

ID: h9ta70t

Pubg died for me and my gaming circle because of cheaters.

ID: h9tfexv

Yeah, mine too. We went to cod as soon as it launched even though we liked PUBG mechanics better because of cheaters.

ID: h9t1rmu

I think people are reading this as another "look it's some salty player bitching about dying to cheaters"

Missing the point completely, which is "hey I'm scared this game might die. If you want help detecting cheaters, you need to fix the desync because it's making it impossible to tell if you're dying to a cheater in many cases"

Reddit is reddit. People downvote for all sorts of shit and it doesn't matter really. I'm just trying to start a relevant discussion. People going off topic is funny.

ID: h9tn2ff

This is me just spit balling here, but I want to provide some thoughts in the interest that other people see them and maybe try to pay attention to it too.

I haven't done specific tests to quantify data, but I've looked at it enough to determine some trends.

If you pull up fps 3, it shows things like PlayerRTT and server update/time. From my understanding, PlayerRTT is the latency after server calculations, and server update/time is the milliseconds per frame (tick) on the server, though you can do 1000/ms to get FPS or tickrate.

I mostly see the server update in the range of 40-64 fps (well below the "up to 120" that was promised), and the PlayerRTT, despite the actual ping being 5-25 ms most of the time, hovers around 75-150 ms, sometimes hitting the thousands.

Usually, when the PlayerRTT starts to skyrocket, the server tick rate is around 40. This indicates to me that the server is overloaded with a specific task.

What we don't know is what it is. Is that people DDOSing the servers? Is it the server hardware not being fast enough? Are there extreme optimizations needed for the server code?

These are things I kind of wish BSG was more transparent about.

On top of that, I noticed that in many raids, most specifically on shoreline, I will go from about 90-110 FPS (where I get 150+ offline with no bots) to 60-80 FPS a minute or two into raid. This is reminiscent of when you spawn into an offline with bots and it suddenly drops in FPS once all the scavs spawn.

I feel like there just needs to be some basic optimizations done, as well as a heavy focus on asynchronousation and multithreading for tasks. I only mention async because even the UI gets hung up waiting for requests from their PHP servers sometimes. I can only imagine the same is true in-game.

For all we know, the game could run at a constant 120+ FPS on any system, but it's busy waiting or syncing for network requests that the FPS drops.

This is my basic guess at some of the issues, since I do a little bit of software engineering, but I haven't gone into game development that much. I just hope they hire a few more developers, and maybe make a switch to Unreal Engine 5, which would especially help with the scope rendering using Nanite.

ID: h9tqp0o

haha well it’s a good thing tarkov doesn’t have problems with stutters, hit reg, and desync!!!

6 : Anonymous2021/08/21 20:07 ID: h9trn7r

Not sure what we’re talking about how pubg was never a cheatfest…but it always had cheats that ruined it.

I think it is also sad to say pubg was the best FPS…I mean some of the older CODs were great.

7 : Anonymous2021/08/21 16:37 ID: h9t02uv

I think people just got tired of PUBG man. I didn't stop playing cause of desync or cheaters. I just lost interest and found other games to be more fun.

Tarkov is more of a niche game but the average player is probably much more dedicated than the average PUBG user. Tarkov will die someday, but I don't see it being anytime soon.

ID: h9tgezm

I personally stopped playing both because of the desync. I'm still hopeful in a few patches I'll be back to EFT, but man.... I'm just not having fun right now with the servers where they are at.

8 : Anonymous2021/08/21 17:07 ID: h9t41py

There was multiple battle royale games released, theres no game yet that even falls in tarkov category

ID: h9t975i

Yet. I’m willing to bet big money there’s at least one company who is developing a tarkov like game right now

ID: h9t9pna

BF2042 hazard zone as well

ID: h9t97hh

Hunt showdown.

ID: h9tat3x

Hunt showdown shares similaritys but still isnt near what tarkov is, gameplay/gun play and extensive modding and armou


9 : Anonymous2021/08/21 18:01 ID: h9tb8m8

PUBG had its share of desync and cheaters like any other online FPS, this isn't what killed it.

What killed it was zero effort from the devs. They immediately focused their attention on monetizing the game as soon as it became popular and not only ignored the issues you're talking about, but hardly put out any new content into the game. It wasnt until the game was already dying that we got the island and the maps that followed but by that time better, more optimized BR's had come out.

This is what I have always liked about BSG, the game blew up at the end of 2019. They could have monetized and cashed out, but instead they focused on continuing building the game they envisioned. The game I played in 2019 and the game I'm playing today are two significantly different games with a lot of content in between. Of course it isnt perfect and there is more to be done, but I see the effort and have enjoyed the ride thus far

10 : Anonymous2021/08/21 18:01 ID: h9tbb10

PUBG died partly due to these issues, but mostly because better games came out while PUBG had issues like these (as well as very long matching times and additional maps that were much worse than the original map). I don’t see any direct alternatives to Tarkov coming out in the near future, so this probably won’t happen. Maybe in 2-3 years after big game studios figure out the Tarkov formula.

11 : Anonymous2021/08/21 20:34 ID: h9tv8pc

I was just having this exact thought yesterday with Battlefield going to have a similar Tarkov mode. This style of game could be the next big thing like battle royale were

12 : Anonymous2021/08/21 16:42 ID: h9t0qwo

Game developers have constantly pointed out the severe flaws in the "net-code" which is client side but in every other game is server-side. Stuff like movement being client side allows hackers to fly around. Radar hacks are the tricky ones. These hacks have just become too advanced to mitigate imo. 2 PC setups that analyze packets for radar. Literally undetectable because it can't tell if data is being passed through. All hardware identifiers can be spoofed. Recently a new AI aimbot was created that spoofs itself as a mouse and uses hardware input rather than injecting itself. That is not detectable because you can even adjust how "realistic" the aim is like 500 ms delayed "realistic" lock on or just low aim assist. Back to EFT, as long as RMT is possible, there will a strong incentive for hack developers more-so than the game being popular.

ID: h9thocs

Couldn’t they encrypt the packets to prevent reading by the second pc?

ID: h9tiwb4

I'm pretty sure they tried this for a few weeks, a little over a year ago. They removed it because it caused performance issues.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I remember.

13 : Anonymous2021/08/21 17:01 ID: h9t3aak

You can't even report cheaters and submit evidence in launcher anymore.

They removed the ability. Now all you can do is report in game.

They don't want screenshots and video evidence anymore. Says a lot.

ID: h9t6bea

Screenshots and videos from your POV are not a valid way to determine a cheater unless you're the cheater. So really it doesn't say anything.

ID: h9tghbt

You are correct, seeing a guy teleport into a locked red, or loot being vacuumed across map & disappearing in front of you... the people jump shotting entire lobbies through walls... not valid evidence to determine cheats.

Raid IDs and names are very much helpful evidence if they give a shit.

14 : Anonymous2021/08/21 18:05 ID: h9tbrrx

What fate did PUBG suffer from? Being THE top game with 2 to 3+ million daily active players for no more than a year? How many games do that? It still has 400,000 active players daily on Steam (way more than EFT's 250,000 peak at the beginning of this wipe) and PUBG mobile has tens of million players daily, even after it was banned in India. I assure you that if you launch PUBG now you'll find a full lobby in less than 3 minutes. Also PUBG not played competitively is due to the nature of the game not being suited for it, unlike FPS games like CS:GO or Overwatch (even that flopped but that's because Blizzard is dumb).

Even Fortnite didn't stay at its peak forever, and it was way bigger than PUBG with huge presence on Twitch. Twitch metrics don't mean shit when a ginormous percentage of the player base doesn't even use Twitch (Korea, China and south east Asia).

Also for what it's worth, PUBG currently has 20.2k viewers on Twitch whereas Tarkov has 22.5k viewers...

15 : Anonymous2021/08/21 20:00 ID: h9tqpxy

As a network engineer it's evident that their silence is due to the fact to address a lot of the issues, they'd have to rewrite/rework 80% of the backend. Having players actively sync with loot drops and other player positions without a proximity limit results in an extremely easily exploited netcode. This is why you see so many people ranting about their code, the sad truth is it'd be easier to create a new game than to resolve these issues. Battle eye is also a terrible anticheat, it does nothing more than a process scan and a limited file scan. No cache check and no ram check. Most cheats sideload to ram to be hidden from detection. They don't macid ban and an IP ban is easily circumvented. You pretty know they're a cheater if they have an extremely explicit name like soapyassfarts (like my game last night) or if there is a TTV somewhere in the name. The cheaters are mocking the devs lol. I wholeheartedly believe the desync is a result of having to exchange too much data as described above, most games don't sync everything on the map at all times, it is usually filtered via proximity to the client which in itself is a form of anticheat.

ID: h9u9j7u

As a network engineer it's evident that their silence is due to the fact to address a lot of the issues

I really hope so

16 : Anonymous2021/08/21 18:39 ID: h9tg9zd

Yeah I disagree, imo this game will have the same fate as Star Citizen. Major updates always come in a year, except they dont, they just keep delaying it forever. Every couple of months the game gets some meaningless patches so it can stay beta forever. Which is great since being beta means you dont have to optimize your game, or waste your time on fixing year old issues. Similar to star citizen this game will become a joke for most, while a small group of the most hardcore/delusional fans will stick with the game till they turn off the servers. I hope BSG proves me wrong

17 : Anonymous2021/08/21 20:14 ID: h9tskkn

I got called a cheater last night for throwing four nades in the direction last known of the guy we were fighting. Asked me "how much were those cheats?"

Told him "Facebook market. 50 bucks." Then I got blocked. Shit was hilarious.

18 : Anonymous2021/08/21 19:42 ID: h9toenh

The amount of people saying pubg didnt die to cheaters in this thread is mind boggling lol

19 : Anonymous2021/08/21 17:08 ID: h9t47c5

OP is way off the mark here. PUBG did not die because of cheaters and desync. It died because too many clones of the same type of game came along and did what PUBG did but waaaaay better.

That type of battle royal style game is incredibly easy to reproduce. Apex legends, fortnite, etc all came around and filled in the blanks to what PUBG was supposed to be but never became.

IMO that’s where Tarkov has a sort of antidote against the same thing happening to it. Tarkov is EXTREMELY complex under the hood compared to those other battle royal style games.

Yes, it has been a long time to make it like this, but I firmly believe that if someone else tries to come along and produce a similar type game that it will be a HIGHLY watered down version at best.

Yes, Tarkov has its share of problems. Some of them are indeed pretty major. But it’s the only thing like it in existence right now. DayZ, PUBG, (insert random and not well known ARMA mod name here) don’t hold a candle to it in terms of how complex the game has gotten. A game/concept like Tarkov is not easily reproduceable like a genric battle royal game is.

ID: h9tba5n

As someone who played PUBG from the beginning, I don't think other BRs did things better but they were more accessible. If your current game is struggling with issues, and the alternatives are free, there is no risk to switching. Fortnite, in my opinion, has objectively bad designs around gunplay but it works because of the aesthetic and FTP

ID: h9tc7gv

ARMA 2 is definitely as complex… having lots of gun parts changing the same values isn’t complexity. About the only real difference is the meds system, with EFT having bleeds and field surgery. The ballistics in ARMA feel far tougher to master then in EFT.

20 : Anonymous2021/08/21 16:02 ID: h9svcvz

Bro what? What do you mean no one plays the game it has like 200k concurrent players and very decent twitch viewership and especially when there’s tournaments it’s crazy high

ID: h9t0qh0

Depends where you're from. It has 200k concurrent viewers during peak Asian hours. It is MUCH lower during NA prime time.

ID: h9tewt4

A lot of those are are from a specific region where a specific country is Numba One

ID: h9tkpx3

Krafton, the company that makes pubg pc gets 70% of their revenue from Tencent which works on the mobile version. Pubg pc would instantly crash and burn if they didn't recieve the earnings from a game that they aren't even involved in.

The dev team has sucked the game dry and completely abandoned the western player base. Now they try to stomp out a bunch of new games for the Asian market in hope that at least one of them is a banger. I think if a game is dead to its devs, it's fair to say that that's not a good fate


Notify of
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x