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The Problem
Recently we’ve been seeing a lot of users unhappy with the types of cosplay we allow on our sub. We want to have an open conversation about this to hear your concerns, proposed solutions, and also to give a little insight into the mod team's perspective on this.
Most concerns we’ve seen typically boil down to "this sub is being overrun by sexually explicit cosplayers who are only here to promote their OnlyFans". Let's dissect this a bit.
First - the claim that this sub is being "overrun" by any type of cosplay is not in alignment with the actual statistics of the posts we get here. Our mod team regularly reviews the amount of cosplay that gets posted here, and have found that on average, Cosplay accounts for less than 2% of the content submitted to this subreddit. Here are some actual numbers from our recent reviews:
On August 5 (in preparation for this post), we reviewed the last 1000 posts on this sub and noted 19 total cosplay posts
On July 19th, we reviewed the previous 7 days worth of posts and noted 6 total cosplay posts
On June 7th, we reviewed the previous 7 days worth of posts and noted 5 total cosplay posts
Based on these numbers, it appears that cosplay posts are actually very rare. They get voted to the front page by a high regularity though, and if you only ever check the front page, or your whole involvement with this subreddit is from your individual front page of Reddit, then this is probably why you see cosplay more often.
Second - in regards to the claim that people advertise OnlyFans on our sub - we do not allow posts, comments, watermarks, etc. linking to or directing others to explicit content, which includes OnlyFans. Yes, it's possible to dig through a user's profile and find their OnlyFans account, or research them on Google. But we just want to reiterate that a person must independently seek this information out, as we do not allow it to be posted on our subreddit.
Third - in regards to cosplays being too sexually explicit - we have to remember that Final Fantasy is not a G-rated series. We do judgmentally remove cosplays that are modified (beyond what one could be considered reasonable) to look overly sexual. But the truth is, many Final Fantasy costume designs show a lot of skin, especially for female characters.. Exposed midriffs, cleavage, short skirts/shorts and even thongs are all canon outfits for characters. We've seen several instances where users have complained about a cosplay being too sexual, when it is an accurate depiction of how that character actually appears in the game. It's hard to justify removing an accurate cosplay for being "too explicit". And it also begs the question - why are we okay with fictional characters wearing revealing clothes, while at the same time criticizing real life women for wearing these same outfits? If people have problems with the high level of sexualization in cosplay outfits, perhaps this frustration should be directed at Square for designing their characters in such a way, rather than the cosplayers who are just trying to have fun and show appreciation for the series.
We are not trying to invalidate the concerns of the community. But we just want to be forthright with you all as to why these concerns have been difficult for us to tackle.
The Solutions (so far)We have made attempts to address complaints by introducing a number of rules to combat any perceived flood of Cosplay posts which we have been working on, and trialing, for over a year. Some things have worked, some things haven’t. These are the rules we currently enforce:
No linking or directing people to explicit sites, including OnlyFans.
We don’t allow more than two cosplay posts per week per user.
We remove any cosplay in which the whole costume is not present, with the exception of minor details or artistic liberty.
Someone in their underwear with straight brown hair and red contacts cannot be a Tifa cosplay, for example.
Zero tolerance policy for any sexual undertones in a cosplay featuring a canonically underage character (e.g. suggestive poses or clear modifications to the costume in order to make it appear more “sexy”), even if the cosplayer themselves is over 18.
Any cosplayer who wishes to link to a personal (non-explicit) social media site is subject to our 10:1 self promo threshold.
Proposed solutions that we’ve seen include the following:
Adding a cosplay flair - This is a good idea in theory. The only problem is, Reddit only allows posts to have one flair, and we currently use that to identify which game their post is about (i.e. “FFX”, “FFVII”). This is an important function because it allows people to filter posts to only show games they are interested in, and it helps people avoid spoilers for games they haven't played yet. For example, If a post has a spoiler tag but the title doesn’t indicate which game the post is about, then a user would have no way of knowing which game is potentially being spoiled without having to click into the post. Further if we were to add a "cosplay" flair in addition to our current game flairs, our game filter would no longer work as reddit only lets you filter by one filter at a time. For instance, if a Tifa cosplay has a "Cosplay" flair rather than a "FFVII" flair, then anyone attempting to filter subreddit content to show only FFVII related items would inadvertently filter out that Tifa cosplay, even though that is a FFVII-related post. We are eager to revisit this suggestion if Reddit ever allows more than one flair per post, but until then, we do not see it as a viable option.
Being more stringent with our NSFW tag - people have asked that we use this tag literally and mark anything that your boss wouldn’t want to see on your computer at work. The reason we havent implemented this suggestion is because it would mean a large number of art posts, screenshots and cosplays featuring popular characters would have to be marked NFW by default. We know a lot of people use a site-wide NSFW filter on reddit in order to avoid pornography, and we didnt want people to have to contemplate removing this filter in order to view cannon PG-13 character designs, artwork, or screenshots on our subreddit.
Disallowing cosplay posts by people who also have OnlyFans accounts - our mod team is also against this suggestion, which we explain further in the “Final Note” section below.
We’re not shooting down these ideas, but this was sort of where we landed when we initially discussed them as a mod team. We are open to hearing your thoughts on these suggestions in the comments and furthering these discussions if needed.
Now’s the time to have your sayOkay, so by now, hopefully you haven’t fallen asleep reading our giant wall of text. If this topic is something you feel strongly about, we encourage you to be open and candid in the comments section below. Three questions that would be super helpful in helping us work towards a solution:
1) Do you personally feel there is a problem with cosplay on this subreddit?
2) If yes, what in your opinion is the problem? Please be specific - what separates a problematic cosplay post from a non-problematic one?
3) What is your proposed solution(s) to this problem? Please keep in mind the things we already have trialled or introduced to the sub in the past.
Final noteBefore we close out this post, we want to address something that’s been concerning us. Recently, we’ve been noticing a lot of sexual or inappropriate comments directed at female cosplayers on this sub, especially when it’s revealed that the cosplayer has an OnlyFans account. When we remove these comments, users will often question why sexual comments are not okay towards a user who posts a cosplay but also has an OnlyFans, as OnlyFans is a way to make a living from sexual activity.
Someone who has an OnlyFans is not defined by the fact they have one, and they are allowed to be other things “off the clock”. In the morning, someone should be able to market their OnlyFans with sexual content and inviting sexual attention, and in the afternoon be allowed to post a cosplay without people assuming because she has an OnlyFans, she desires sexual attention in that context. If someone has an OnlyFans, that is their business, and it doesn't mean they've given up their right to be treated with respect.
This subreddit is meant to be a safe space where fans are allowed to celebrate their love for the series with cosplay without being degraded or debased - this does not change based on how much or how little a costume reveals. Just as a woman sunbathing at the beach, wearing a sports bra at the gym, or even nude at a spa is not "inviting" sexual comments from strangers simply for wearing less.
It's all about context, and in the context of this subreddit, sexual comments towards others are never appropriate. Some have said "I'm entitled to sexualize whoever I want". Sure, you're allowed to think whatever you want when you see a cosplay picture. We're not the thought police. But this is a moderated forum, and you are not entitled to use it as a place to share these thoughts. These types of comments will be removed, and repeat offenders will be banned.
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I think I was just getting really sick of the amount of Tifa I've seen. No hate against cosplayers, it's just that the subreddit starts to get.... Boring maybe?
ID: h8g6jr7 -
No Cosplay posts secondhand? So that it needs to be posted by the creator or photographer.
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My biggest problem is that no one ever cosplays Umaro.
ID: h8jrnu7He’s nude, it’s NSFW
ID: h89wc37I feel the same.
ID: h88viadThe true tragedy.
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I agree with what a user just said : while there isn't loads of cosplay posts, they're mostly karna-bait type and saturate the front page. I love FF vii to bits, but damn can I see something else than tifa cosplay and tifa boobs fanart ? I think a specific day for fanarts and cosplays would be ideal : not only would it allow users to keep the single flair, it would also allow artists to have a specific moment to shine. Some cosplayers and artists are so talented, but these post can get overwhelming real fast. I think having a specific day could temper this at least a little.
ID: h88mszwThis. Cindy is also a culprit.
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Nice work, Mods. I can’t say I’ve seen “too much cosplay” or “too sexual cosplay”, so have no strong feelings as you’ve suggested other users might. However, I wanted to comment to say what a great job you’ve done of communicating with the sub on this. Also, really heartened by your final note section.
I feel like this is a community I want to continue to be a part of. It’s my favourite place on reddit - thanks for enabling that.
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I'm personally just tired of seeing cosplays. It always seems to be the same three characters and when you've seen one, you've seen them all.
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You've correctly identified the problem - cosplay is karma bait and they easily hit three figures leading to a misrepresentation of the subreddit.
My suggestion is to restrict cosplay to a particular day, like memes. The meme day is successful as important news and topics are still visible on Mondays amongst the shitposting.
ID: h884ye1Thank you for suggesting this idea! We'll take this one back to the team for discussion.
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The only issues I have with cosplay on the FF sub is that it’s almost exclusively Tifa and her outfit is extremely easy to replicate. Let’s be straight, Tifa shows a lot of skin, even for an FF character and even the most accurate Tifa cosplay is going to classify as NSFW on most other subs. That being said, she’s one of the most popular FF characters, regardless of her looks.
Do I like seeing good cosplay? Of course I do! Do I like seeing the same character over and over again? Of course not.
I honestly don’t know how to solve the “cosplay problem” because it shouldn’t be a problem, but a lot of characters in their canon outfits are definitely not safe for work.
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as a cosplayer myself I'm very on the fence about this. i feel both sides. we can't police cosplays that are technically accurate, but at the same time (even as someone who's cosplayed tifa before) I'm also tired of seeing the same thing over and over again.
probably unlike most people, i joined this sub so i could occasionally search "cosplay" in here because i love seeing other's creations, but it's so incredibly boring when you do so and are met with post after post that is nearly identical to the next.
i think the fact that these posts (no matter how few and far between they might be) shoot to the front page is more a reflection on the kind of people that frequent this sub rather than the cosplayers themselves. to a lesser extent, I've seen the same thing in
cosplayers who craft amazing armou
, cosplay lesser known characters, or heck even just... cosplay a male character that isn't a main from ffvii. not many will ever get the appreciation they probably deserve in this sub and as a cosplayer i can appreciate how disheartening that is.I'm almost certain many of those who /are/ complaining wouldn't be complaining if there was more of a level playing field and they got to witness the above posts without the frustration of sifting through a hundred tifas.
there is a certain level of effort i wish the sub could moderate, but no matter how it's done it would come across as gatekeepy. don't get me wrong, a good tifa is a good tifa. but when the well crafted/amazingly photographed/heavily detailed cosplays of the girls are upvoted just as much as a girl in a white crop, black skirt and red suspenders taking a grainy selfie, simply for no other reason than "heheh tiddies" I can't help but feel there needs to be some kind of way to separate the two. unfortunately it's just easier said than done.
this isn't exactly the direction i think y'all were asking for but i thought it might help to get perspective from a cosplayer.
ID: h89bd0di have to return here to state this. in my original comment i passed over the whole NSFW issue in the main post.
searching "cosplay" and scroll for barely even a second and i can already spot multiple cosplays that, in my opinion although not explicit, should have the NSFW tag.
Mods, you can't deny that there is a difference between a tifa cosplayer relaxing/fight posing/just existing in the costume vs a tifa cosplayer legs spread kneeling on a bed/floor with her hands behind her head and back thrown out to show off certain assets. They should be allowed to post, absolutely. But it should be tagged appropriately.
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I don’t mind cosplays. Just wish there was more variety and less of the same old tired Tifa.
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Cosplay accounts for less than 2% of the content submitted to this subreddit
I think you could have stopped here. If anyone is upset that there is "too much cosplay", they are overreacting.
Everything beyond that sounds like the mods have any issues with inappropriate posts handled.
ID: h88mn7vThat 2% can seem like more when it percolates to the top of the subreddit.
ID: h89kbnuWe had the same issue with fanart a little while ago. There were complaints that Tifa fanart was flooding the subreddit when again, actually very little Tifa fanart had been posted, it just happened to be popular enough to be upvoted to the front page.
In fact, I seem to recall one of the weeks I checked had more Aerith fanart than Tifa.
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No need to do anything, this is just yet another form of gatekeeping by the “real gamers.” How is this any different from fan art, tattoos, collection photos, and other fan content that gets posted all the time? There is just a certain type of person that sees women and needs to believe he is a real fan and she is not, and this is the bs he comes up with.
ID: h8hodz0100% agreed
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Imagine having to address whiners because they THINK they see too much cosplay. Wreck these complainers with facts! I love it.
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very heartened by some of the responses here and its also fascinating to hear opinions from different camps, especially cosplayers themselves.
the fact that some state they havent seen NSFW cosplay stuff is also a good thing because we've had to moderate some.. interesting choices before. that being said we are a small team and we do get a lot of post submissions so we really depend on you guys to be our eyes and report things which seem out of line, cosplay or otherwise.
thanks for your support and understanding 😀
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I fail to see a problem.
This sub simply isn't so busy that a handful of people a week showing off their Tifa or Yuna costumes is drowning out other topics. Also, a bare midriff is hardly overly sexual and some of the complaining seems to indicate shock that women have breasts. Big fucking deal.
Frankly, the only problem with the cosplay posts is that nobody cosplays as my girls Celes and White Mage.
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I use Reddit with the NSFW filter on, and I feel there are definitely cosplay and fanarts that get posted which should have that tag.
They’re not outright pornographic but still very revealing and suggestive (there was one of these of Yuffie recently). I’d happy for more stringent use of the tag as the mods suggested.
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The larger problem is this sub being infested with neckbeards who will jump at any opportunity to demean someone's harmless hobby. The fact that cosplay pictures are among the most upvoted posts on this sub highlights the hypocrisy of gawking at pretty cosplayers and then complaining about it in the comments.
ID: h8893rvthose who upvote it are not the same as those who complain it.
this sub has 2k user online right now you know...
ID: h88cceeCouldn't agree more
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I appreciate a good cosplay. Putting together the costumes is not a talent I have. But when the majority of cosplays on this sub is Tifa, then it gets a little boring. The series is full of amazing characters, not just the characters of FF7.
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Gonna be honest, in the past 2 weeks, I’ve seen maybe 1 cosplay post (fem Sephiroth specifically), so I really wouldn’t label it as a “problem”.
If the sub as a whole thinks it’s a problem, though, maybe we could make one day per week specifically for cosplays? Like Monday (I think?) is for memes?
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Nice communication mods, I think it's great to involve the community a little more.
My 2 cents, I like the cosplay and the fan art as much if not more so than a lot of the discussions on here... unless it's about how good the OST's are. Love those discussions.
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The only problem I have with cosplay is it being too samey. Don't care about it being posted for promotional reasons (OnlyFans), don't care about it being too sexually explicit. Good for them, if that's what they want to do. I only care that it's 99% Tifa cosplays. And that's not really something that can be moderated. You can't lock a thread and say, "come back when you make a Vanille cosplay!"
Being able to filter them out is the best solution, if possible,
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Sigh. Just like awhile back when people were making a huge deal out of Tifa fanart, here we are again with far more people complaining about a thing than that thing actually being posted. And some of it goes far beyond complaining that these cosplays exist and are outright harassment and body shaming. The comments on that Cindy cosplay the other day were downright vile, and while the mods did remove the worst offenders, I was disappointed that they didn't remove some of the comments suggesting the OP was promoting her OnlyFans and outright calling her a sex worker.
No, there isn't "too much" cosplay being posted here, as the mod team has already determined. I really don't think we need an entire day of the week devoted to something that isn't posted as much as people claim it is.
"I'm tired of seeing cosplay." Then don't click on cosplay posts. Just scroll on by and don't engage. Go to your account settings and change your Global Content View option to "Compact" and you won't even see the thumbnail image. It's that easy if you really don't want to see it. But no, instead people will comment on that post to complain about how they don't want to see it. It's like the people who feel compelled to comment on posts about FFVI or VII that those games are overrated and they're tired of people talking about them. You are actively seeking out content that you don't want to see just to say that you don't want to see them. Just. Don't. Engage.
If someone is wearing an outfit that closely matches what a character wears, then it's valid cosplay regardless of whether or not someone thinks it's "low effort" or too revealing. I simply do not understand how people can claim someone cosplaying as Cindy shouldn't wear short shorts or someone cosplaying as Tifa or Lulu shouldn't show so much cleavage. I remember when someone cosplayed as Celes in her sprite outfit and people shamed her for wearing something that was too sexualized and showed too much skin. Because, you know, bare legs are so much more scandalous than skintight yellow leggings I guess. So it's not just Tifa or Cindy, some people will find a way to object to cosplay of any female character, because they just can't resist an opportunity to police a woman's body. I can only imagine the slut-shaming someone would get if they cosplayed as Maria wearing the exact bodysuit and half-a-bra that she wears in Amano's artwork. Hell, if I had the confidence in my own body that cosplayers have, I'd do it myself just to prove a point.
Then there are the usual gripes about karma farming, which are ridiculous because that's the entire point of the karma system. And who cares if someone gets a bunch of imaginary internet points? "But then it's at the top of the sub for a day and I have to know it exists." Again, just scroll past it. Filter by "New." Take a deep breath, it's okay if not every single thing you see is specifically catered to your individual preferences.
"Why is there so much Tifa?" I dunno, why is there so much Cloud and Sephiroth? It's almost like the most popular characters are going to get more fanart and cosplay. And yes, fanservice characters are going to be popular because that's what fanservice characters exist for. You want more content featuring less popular characters? Make some. And if you're someone who feels that fanart and cosplay is low-effort, it can't be that hard to make your own, right?
As far as my proposed solution, I don't see that there's any problem with cosplay posts in the first place and things are fine the way they are. Though perhaps the mod team could broaden rule 1 a bit to include that suggesting cosplayers are promoting porn sites or they are prostitutes as personal attacks. EDIT - After catching up on the rest of the replies, I see this has already been addressed by the mod team. I really appreciate you all for everything you do to keep this community from becoming a cesspool like I've seen happen to other fandom subreddits.
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Legit doesn't seem to be a problem right now, I think some people are mostly just irritated by onlyfans cosplayers, and maybe seeing them on other subs makes their perceive there to be more than there actually are in this sub.
Unrelated, but in the off chance we get incorrect quote generator posts on here, please burn them to the ground immediately lol.
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People are actually complaining about sexy costumes? This world is getting sadder by the day.
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Sort by new. Problem fixed
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I think the Cosplay flair is the perfect solution. I bet people who filter by a specific game aren’t even going to care if it filters out all cosplay.
My biggest issue with cosplay is that it’s almost never exclusive content to the sub and when something is posted to a billion different subs then you know the purpose isn’t because they love this sub. The purpose is farming and advertising.
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The loudest people will always be the complainers. But the fact that posts get upvoted means people want to see them. I really couldn't care less if they are karma bait or whatever, if content is upvoted then that's content the majority of people want to see. But of course most people who are happy will just click an upvote and move on, while the unhappy sit here and complain.
I personally think the system is working as intended. Artificially segregating content serves no purpose when A. That content is clearly accepted by most and B. Not really that common as you said in your post.
Stay the course is what I say.
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I'll risk the downvotes. I'm not a huge cosplay fan, I like a good one here and there, especially if a lot of work has gone into the costume or if there's a new twist, but I'm not particularly in love with it as some are. However
we’ve been noticing a lot of sexual or inappropriate comments directed at female cosplayers on this sub,
I'm finding this a bit difficult to deal with when some cosplays clearly have a sexual undertone. I'm not for being degrading or crass, there always has to be order. And I'm not saying this cosplayers should suffer whatever commenters throw at them. What I am saying is that there are clearly sexual themes in many, many cosplay pics, and -in this context- to stand firmly against comments commenting on that theme seems a bit silly. What are we trying to achieve?
This isn't necessarily a comment for the mods, I think they're generally doing a good job, and I think they should keep deleting comments that cross the line (where that line is right now is a different topic), but it's also a comment to the community. I have rarely seen a comment commenting on the looks of the cosplayer without being downvoted. Just something I wanted to share.
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I’ve actually started to visit FF less here because of this. I’m surprised that it’s so little when you presented the numbers because I feel every time I enter here there’s is just tons of cosplay and pictures of people's tattoos and stuff. Honestly, it’s so extremely boring and too much of the same content so I would rather see this type of content removed entirely. We’re here to talk about Final Fantasy content and news, not look at tattoos, cosplaying, onlyFans ‘n’ other filler content.
ID: h8o31i0Very well said!
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I swear I've seen more people complaining about cosplays than I have actual cosplays, but I think you addressed the issue or non-issue very thoughtfully here. I'm really not a fan of the "This hot girl can't really enjoy my video game or have interests outside of typical hot girl things" undertone I'm seeing in a lot of comments on the matter.
To answer your questions, no, I don't really think Tifa being a popular cosplay choice is a problem. Like you said, I've yet to see any that are customed or posed in a way that's significantly more suggestive than she often is in canon. If I do see posts that feel repetitive or low effort, it's really not a big deal to me to just scroll on by. I've only played three FF games so far, meaning the majority of the content on the sub is not for me yet, but you don't hear me complaining. We're a big, diverse community and this is a good thing, even if it means not all of the content can appeal to every member.
I don't think banning posts from OF users is the answer. For one, it'd be a lot of work for you guys on the mod team searching through the post history of every cosplayer who posts their work. Beyond that, sex workers are a stigmatised group already and them being barred from sharing their hobby with a fandom sub would leave a really sour taste in my mouth.
Just my thoughts. Again, I think you addressed the concerns well here and the moderation you guys have in place seems solid to me.
ID: h880147I'm really not a fan of the "This hot girl can't really enjoy my video game or have interests outside of typical hot girl things" undertone I'm seeing in a lot of comments on the matter.
I agree with this. In this recent Cindy cosplay post, there was a lot of negative comments and eventually the cosplayer tried to defend herself by confirming that she is in fact a fan of the series and was proud of her cosplay. The fact that she even felt the need to make that comment to justify herself is so disappointing.
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I'm quite new to reddit, (joined this year) and I have to say that this is a problem in a lot of subs. I'm subscribed to several subs including this and Tomb Raider and Nier and I see the exact same thing in all 3. That is, people hating on both cosplays and fanart.
It literally takes a second, no, less than a second to put your finger on the mouse wheel or phone and scroll down and ignore a post you don't like. But no, people would much rather to be toxic and hateful.
2 days ago I saw a post of Cindy fanart, and it looked amazing, but nobody talked about that, instead people talked about how badly designed Cindy is. I even posted on it complaining about such posts. The next day when I checked to see if someone replied, I saw that the post was removed and the user had actually deleted their account... Worst case scenario is the user was harassed for having the "audacity" to make such a post. I hope that's not the case but this is the internet so you never know. But this is just one case in many. At this point I can guarantee what kind of comments I'm going to see when I click on cosplay or fanart posts.
It's actually kind of depressing. And I'm sorry if what I'm about to say sounds rude but, for the amount of time I've been on Reddit, I've come to realise that atleast for gaming subs, (since those are what im mostly interested in) Reddit is a cesspool. Just like Twitter. Sure I can just not look at comments, but isn't that what social media is about?
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I have no issues with seeing cosplay on here every once in awhile. It's a part of fandom as much as fan art or music or whatever.
If someone gets angry because they saw a picture of a woman dressed as Tifa, they need therapy.
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There is not a problem, and there is no need for a "solution" to please a noisy minority.
(Yes I think Tifa is a little overdone, but that's why when I see a Tifa cosplay I just scroll on.)
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The only issue I see mentioned by people is that most of the cosplays are Tifa. Which may be true, but what is the solution to that? Ban Tifa cosplays? That would be silly. Plus as OP stated and backed up with stats, it's not that common in the grand scheme of things.
I think this is making a mountain of a molehill.
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I would just like to say BRAVO to the mods for the way this post was written. You have done an excellent job and have made it very clear that making this space safe for women is your priority. I feel quite proud to be here. I was skeptical, but you all have proven your values are in the right place. Millions of thanks to you.
ID: h8863xgWe've been discussing cosplay on and off for about year and this post, as with all posts we make, was written by all members of the team, and signed off by all members of the team - with large amounts of debating thrown in.
We're really lucky with our mod team that we have a group of people fostering an amazing culture behind the scenes of the subreddit. I feel privileged to be a part of it.
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/p0nyba/lets_talk_about_cosplay_on_this_sub/
what if Tifa cosplay was limited specifically (once a week, once a month?) that way it protects some of the bandwidth of other quality posts and other more unique cosplays? Let's get more Kefka and Exdeath cosplayers, just as an example. Don't think other more unique cosplays should face the same barrier since they aren't overpopulating the front page whereas it seems a Tifa cosplay has a decent chance of shooting to the top eating up the opportunity cost of another post potentially