Group scaling levels needs more enemies on the map, not beefier ones.

1 : Anonymous2021/05/09 16:11 ID: n8hdvu

So, as we know, the late game expedition part of this title involves speed running through to get gold. The problem with playing with people is the enemies Health scales to what feels like 100% for every player in the squad. In a game which already feels like you need to be running a damage dealing setup, you'd think in teamplay at least you'd have a chance to diversify a bit and act as support. It seems not, as always, damage is king. Dead enemies are the best enemies.

Perhaps a little controversial, I'd prefer if party play scaled up the number of enemies with a slight HP bump instead. This will give crowd control/support builds more use, and continue to allow your damage dealing player(s) using bullet rounds to have more opportunities to regen their ammo (fighting over kills is lame in a co-op environment).

2 : Anonymous2021/05/09 16:55 ID: gxii7zw

Yes please. I feel like the health bump when you duo is just about right. After that it should be just more. Lots more, maybe.

Damage sponges are never fun, and in a game where your primary way to heal is to kill, it’s counter-productive.

3 : Anonymous2021/05/09 19:34 ID: gxj1v83

I agree with this 100%. Two players seems ok but three is way overtuned currently in higher level expeditions.

4 : Anonymous2021/05/09 16:44 ID: gxigw7a

I agree with this. Make them hit harder per player, make more of them, and decrease the HP scaling to like... half or 2/3 of what it is now.

ID: gxigz1o

I mean like... More, to the point where reflect bullets on boomtown seems like a pretty legit option.

5 : Anonymous2021/05/09 20:48 ID: gxjb2zd

Honestly i think more team buffing mods would go a long way to making support builds good

ID: gxjpga4

Yeah agreed

6 : Anonymous2021/05/09 19:19 ID: gxj009m

The problem is expeditions already have 3 man enemy amounts even in solo I’m fine with the hp because even with more enemies that incentivizes everyone running around doing their own thing. I prefer actual teamwork and synergy. For example if they add more enemies with minimal HP ups then overheat pyro will just be the strongest build in the game. Play that with like 1 techno who can insta melt every elite because it won’t have any hp this would be awful in practice. Also keeping up bullet skills becomes trivial

7 : Anonymous2021/05/09 17:15 ID: gxikp4d

Lol, no.

What's the point? Acari pyro will hit 50 mobs instead of 20. What's the difference?

ID: gxjuujh

Nothing if you play a perfect specced mass-wipe pyro with all gear. For everyone else though it means we all get a chance to trigger on kill skills or similar effects which is a major thing to many builds/classes. It also helps the players feel poweful and makes rounds more fun (see Diablo) and less like shooting at a bulletspong for 5min without ever being in real danger... Or would also make something like Devastator shield an awesome skill

ID: gxilj8g

Agree. More enemies doesn’t solve the problem. Beefier enemies hurts builds that require kills to restore ammo in mags but it does help with survivability since all the enemies aren’t ganging up on 1 person.

ID: gxilu83

Simply let on kill mods to activate during 2 seconds of your hit. It will be more than enough in co-op.

Or 1 second

ID: gxjuw03

That's literally the only build in the game capable of doing that. You want to balance the game around a single build for a single class?

ID: gxjp7k4

The difference is for the players who don't have all the best gear yet and just want an enjoyable experience where they can afford to use different skill trees without feeling penalised for playing with their friends

8 : Anonymous2021/05/09 17:43 ID: gxio5as

In any other game I would completely agree.
However, this game crashes whenever there's more than 10 enemies on the screen at once.

ID: gxjop20

Who’s game is crashing like this?

9 : Anonymous2021/05/09 19:13 ID: gxiz6c5

Expeditions are already set up for 3 people in terms of enemy count. I absofuckinglutly do not want to be fighting 4 or 5 brood mothers and 20+ alphas all at once. I agree the scaling needs to be set back in terms of enemy health however, it's why I prefer to play solo is because of the ridiculous health pools of the enemy when there are 3 players

10 : Anonymous2021/05/09 21:06 ID: gxjddhs

If they didn’t scale the enemy health this game would be a joke. People (myself included) do more then enough damage to solo ct 15s with 2 carries in the group. As a pyro with 3 people I literally hit the small mobs with one heatwave and let them burn to death.

ID: gxjg7aw

Play on a devastator and do this. Telling me you're using the most powerful set (acari likely I'm guessing) and character doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist for other parties and setups.

ID: gxjggn7

Literally bleed, bullet, and melee devastators are pulling 300mil. A brief search will show you plenty of builds that pump damage for every class.

11 : Anonymous2021/05/09 19:19 ID: gxizxss

No. The game can barely handle the enemies we already have. You also have two meta support classes you can play to satisfy your diversity needs

12 : Anonymous2021/05/09 20:41 ID: gxja7x4

Does that mean my EQ will demolish more enemies?


13 : Anonymous2021/05/09 22:00 ID: gxjju89

From my experience that won't change anything the classes that deal aoe take out most the little guys anyway and as techno makes me more underpowered can't keep br up and eventually get floored

ID: gxjq2m2

I mean more enemies doesn't just have to mean only little guys. The problem of BR would not be fixed if you're running with an ad clear partner ofc, however the point of my post is more to address people who are not running these stupid strong builds (it's not everyone with these builds I assure you). There should be more synergy play for people who struggle solo without them feeling penalised for wanting to play with others on their level imo.

Right now it feels like co-op is carry or be carried.

14 : Anonymous2021/05/09 23:23 ID: gxjt25f

I have been playing exclusively co-op since the beginning and there are tons of ways to optimize party composition to maximize your output. It's not just about buffs (techno mancer 40% weapon damage all the time is decent) it's about have different specialties and not relying exclusively on clip-refresh gun builds to do damage.

The real fixes you are actually getting at are takedowns at least partially counting as "kills" and firepower builds being more 50/50 basic/rounds instead of being 10/90. This would dramatically smooth out gun builds damage output in group combat.

15 : Anonymous2021/05/09 23:30 ID: gxjtsx5

Agreed, the scaling is insane. Would be nice to be able to solo, without major issue too.

16 : Anonymous2021/05/09 18:44 ID: gxivlaw

tbh, crossplay with the older generation systems limits this as the people playing on those platforms will undoubtedly experience severe ass lag. Things don't even work smoothly right now and adding more mobs to the picture...smh

Don't get it twisted, I would love to have epic scale battles but these mfkers over at PCF can't even get the core mechanics of their game working.


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