AMD: We Stand Ready To Make Arm Chips

1 : Anonymous2021/09/16 04:25 ID: pp6bog
AMD: We Stand Ready To Make Arm Chips
2 : Anonymous2021/09/16 07:02 ID: hd1vetk

not surprising, amd has a full arm license and was working on arm desig already several years ago with jim keller's k12, they had to pull on ice that project as all resources were needed by Zen but in 2020 there already were rumors about them working on another arm design alongside their work with samsung to port rdna2 on their socs.

ID: hd1xxnr


ID: hd209ts

AMD had two parallel CPU projects, Zen and K12. Both were intended to be used as complementary offerings on a shared platform, look up Project Skybridge, but AMD ran out of money for that project and focussed on Zen.

ID: hd236p2

Keller's work was on K12, something to replace Bulldozer and Jaguar, Project Skybridge, and reorganization of AMD's CPU division. Zen was designed jointly by Suzanne Plummer and Mark Papermaster's groups. He was very much still an x86 guy.

His work at Intel wasn't focused on ARM either.

Microsoft's ARM translation is also quite mature and robust now. It borrows from the PowerPC to x86 JIT translation work done for the Xbox One.

ID: hd2ssaj

IC: So going back to ISA question - many people were asking about what do you think about Arm versus x86? Which one has the legs, which one has the performance? Do you care much, if at all?

JK: I care a little. Here's what happened - so when x86 first came out, it was super simple and clean, right? Then at the time, there were multiple 8-bit architectures: x86, the 6800, the 6502. I programmed probably all of them way back in the day. Then x86, oddly enough, was the open version. They licensed that to seven different companies. Then that gave people opportunity, but Intel surprisingly licensed it. Then they went to 16 bits and 32 bits, and then they added virtual memory, virtualization, security, then 64 bits and more features. So what happens to an architecture as you add stuff, you keep the old stuff so it's compatible.

So when Arm first came out, it was a clean 32-bit computer. Compared to x86, it just looked way simpler and easier to build. Then they added a 16-bit mode and the IT (if then) instruction, which is awful. Then [they added] a weird floating-point vector extension set with overlays in a register file, and then 64-bit, which partly cleaned it up. There was some special stuff for security and booting, and so it has only got more complicated.

Now RISC-V shows up and it's the shiny new cousin, right? Because there's no legacy. It's actually an open instruction set architecture, and people build it in universities where they don’t have time or interest to add too much junk, like some architectures have. So relatively speaking, just because of its pedigree, and age, it's early in the life cycle of complexity. It's a pretty good instruction set, they did a fine job. So if I was just going to say if I want to build a computer really fast today, and I want it to go fast, RISC-V is the easiest one to choose. It’s the simplest one, it has got all the right features, it has got the right top eight instructions that you actually need to optimize for, and it doesn't have too much junk.

ID: hd21xdh

You can already get this ARM translator in Windows 11. I’ve ran Astroneer servers on my Raspberry Pi without much trouble (outside of the weak CPU.)

ID: hd25n7z

Probably not well known because it sounds like made up, non-credible rumors.

Jim would not have joined AMD and then Intel solely to make ARM processors, ffs. He's not an idiot and understands these businesses and their priorities.

13 series and up intel will use some of those arm designs like chiplets (like AMD).

Raptor Lake will be fully x86. What the fuck are you talking about?

3 : Anonymous2021/09/16 06:22 ID: hd1seyg

Is this how the war between the Arm and the Core starts in Total Annihilation?

ID: hd22os6

God damn i just had Vietnam flashbacks with TA. wonder if the online community is still active or if they moved over to FAF.

ID: hd28lga

We got TA Spring for a long time now. Especially the Balance Annihilation "mod" gets very close to the original.

ID: hd29275

Allow me to refresh your memory.

What began as a conflict over the transfer of consciousness from flesh to machines escalated into a war which has decimated a million worlds. The Core and the Arm have all but exhausted the resources of a galaxy in their struggle for domination.

Cue the awesome Jeremy Soule track

So, no, but maybe Neuralink can be responsible 😉

ID: hd3y72j

Even decades later that intro cinematic is burned into my memory.

4 : Anonymous2021/09/16 08:29 ID: hd21562

Well for the most part, the CPU back-end design can be shared. Many higher level aspects of the front-end as well.

That doesn't make it _easy_ to stuff a new ISA in front of say, a Zen 4 back-end, but it is easier than a ground-up design.

ID: hd4lzy6

Really? Never expected that with how complex is this...

5 : Anonymous2021/09/16 14:31 ID: hd2ztqe

Nowadays when CPUs are running internally on their own micro-ops and AMD already has a competent backend they can fairly easily do an ARM front end for Zen CPU. Especially that original Zen as a part of Skybridge project was designed with that flexibility in mind. I'm not saying this will happen or that it can be done overnight, but that it can be done if AMD sees a market for such a product or their semi-custom client wants one.

6 : Anonymous2021/09/16 17:11 ID: hd3nqtq

They are ready to do it since Ryzen 1. They were ready to present what they have done with it as K12, but it went silent and removed from discussions.

7 : Anonymous2021/09/16 15:11 ID: hd35p0r

I still think ARM is a dead horse as well, RISC-V seems to be the way to go.

ID: hd43a8u

I don't think Risc-V has the legs, we'll see though, I like to be proven wrong.

8 : Anonymous2021/09/16 16:29 ID: hd3hcav

When are we going to get socketed motherboards that have one for ARM, and another for AMD chips? Maybe have a board that has an ARM soldered on, then a socket for x86 -- or vice versa.

9 : Anonymous2021/09/16 14:46 ID: hd322h4

this could be interesting

10 : Anonymous2021/09/16 16:35 ID: hd3ia89

Is that what the K series was for?

11 : Anonymous2021/09/16 17:26 ID: hd3pzlg

Honest question.

What is the chance they come with a standard design to have a similar implementation to apple and rosetta ?

ID: hd43dwk

Highly, they talked about doing it a heap of times.

12 : Anonymous2021/09/16 21:01 ID: hd4llpm

I love the phrasing, because AMD has always been the stalwart knight fighting against Nvidia and Intel to provide gamers with actual value instead of scams.


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