Navi33 for AMD’s next generation Radeon graphics cards with 4096 cores and as fast as Navi21? | igor´sLAB

1 : Anonymous2021/09/29 07:45 ID: pxqj7p
Navi33 for AMD’s next generation Radeon graphics cards with 4096 cores and as fast as Navi21? | igor´sLAB
2 : Anonymous2021/09/29 09:19 ID: hepb677

It's hard to believe a rumour that says a 150w 7600xt and a 128bit bus will be faster than the 300w 6900xt.

But I'd like to be proven wrong so I can finally do real 4k 120fps gaming on the 7900xt

ID: hepse2a


Article says ~200w, just to be clear.

ID: heq77az

Which is quite realistic.

For example, 6600XT with 160W TDP is faster than 5700XT with 225W TDP at 1080p within the same 7nm node. That's 71% power usage from the previous gen. So, if it's 300W that would mean 213W.

ID: hephina

If it's 2 MCMs with a 128bit bus each, then maybe

EDIT: nvm, the rumour is specifically that this is for the top end monolithic RDNA3. But a 256MB Infinity Cache is mentioned, which is pretty phat for a 3rd tier GPU.

ID: hepyiyw

Specs do not really matter, what matters is how much more it will cost for the same amount of performance.

Not that it matters, mining farms will get most of the cards anyway...

ID: heqrf92

Mining go down, 5700xt is worth more than 6700xt. Because of infinity cache

ID: hepdaop

i think that this is possible, AMD want's to be legend [HD7000 series] again

ID: hepnf5h

It's more believable when you take into account that reference stock 6900XT cards boost to 2.2-2.3GHz on average.

Meanwhile, 6900XT overclocks are reaching close to 3GHz and 6600XT cards are already doing those clocks with lower voltages.

ID: hepdle1

on a 6nm like in the article said = Nope, but on a 5nm with larger infinity cache & possibly faster GDDR6? It is possible.

ID: heplldb

If there is enough infinity cache it should be faster along with core improvements and rt enhancements it should be possible.

ID: hes9l6s

You also missed the point that AMD was able to double the performance of Navi 10 on the exact same 7nm node.

You don't think they can do a similar jump on 6nm?

ID: heqeyah

Especially with tsmc 6nm, a process very similar to current 7nm.

ID: heryddw

But cam it do 8K60?

ID: hes0d0k

I can do this now with a 6900 xt.

ID: hes0iwg

Perhaps the whole board will just be a huge cache. Or the decided to go back to HBM. Or perhaps more bs rumors that all these articles stay so they can clickbait.

3 : Anonymous2021/09/29 08:35 ID: hep8dbw

Be sure it that the vram will not be lower than 8gb or at least 10gb

ID: hephdf1

10GB seems unlikely with a 128bit bus

ID: hepinny

Can't they change it to more like 160bit?

ID: hepd0ga

Unlike Nvidia which will cripple the VRAM on their cards again lmao

4 : Anonymous2021/09/29 09:22 ID: hepbdyh

I'm more excited about MCM design talk, than any particular perf target for a single chiplet.

ID: hepowac

This is the top end monolithic die. Navi 31 and 32 are the MCM designs.

ID: heq8qlo

This will be NV's Ryzen moment.

NAVI has already wrecked Ampere line, dropping GPUs by one tier (3060 having more VRAM than 3060Ti, 3070, 3080, chuckle). Imagine what MCM chip can do. And not like NV would be able to respond any time soon.

AND, unlike in CPU world, there will be no "but that's multithreaded... whereas in single threaded tasks".

ID: hepsbyp

I hope you have a very, very large checkbook.

ID: heput2k

Is it not allowed to be interested in something without immediately having to buy said product?

ID: hepvqtt

Smaller than if you were to try and make a monolithic card with the same performance

5 : Anonymous2021/09/29 12:39 ID: heprpb6

The die is very similar to the flagship Navi 21 GPU and is expected to be manufactured in TSMC’s 6nm node.

So it's still gonna be fairly large and like $500+, just to warn people.

ID: heqi0qw

Based on what? If it's 4096 shaders it's just under 400mm2, but the 128bit bus and 8 PCIe4.0 lanes means PCB costs will be in line with the 6600XT rather than the 6700XT.

I don't really see much of a reason why it's MSRP would be above that of the 6700XT, unless Nvidia doesn't offer anything with better price/perf.

ID: herwsyd

Seeing how 6700XT was already $480, 7600XT being $500+ wouldn't be that unexpected.

ID: heq53cu

Yea, I think it's unfortunately a given that prices will rise a tier. If performance raises 2 tiers though I think that's ok.

ID: heqszwi

It may be ok from a value sense, but $500 for a gpu excludes a lot of would be gamers. I have a friend who wants to build, but would have a hard time spending more than $750 on the whole build for the next year. A $500 gpu makes a sub $900 build quite difficult.

ID: heqh1j0

well normally, 7nm would start to see price decreases, and 6nm is effectively the same node (same machines make both), and with just a 128bit bus, it wouldn't be very expensive, we aren't on normal times sadly.

6 : Anonymous2021/09/29 08:20 ID: hep7ejl

doubt it

I think that 7600xt will be as fast as 6700xt for sure, like 6600xt is just a little from 5700xt

no way it can catch the giant 6900xt also for tdp reasons

ID: heps935

Y'all are again getting too hung up on naming. Naming is arbitrary and can be shuffled around. The top cards dont even have to have the same numbering scheme as lower cards, ala Fiji or Vega.

ID: hep91hj

no way it can catch the giant 6900xt also for tdp reasons

A 180W TDP GPU can catch the 6900 XT if AMD does slightly better than expected on RDNA3. A 200W GPU will reach 6900 XT as per AMD's goals of 50% better perf/watt.

ID: hepa5mb

its already 60% or better...

ID: hepsj7h

as per AMD's goals of 50% better perf/watt.

We have no idea how much of that is expected from TSMC 5nm on the higher end cards, versus just pure architectural improvements.

ID: hep8dee

128bit bus 6nm rdna3 will match 6900xt at a wattage that will blow peoples minds.
Next generation will be really good

ID: heq59vy

If you apply the same scaling of what AMD did for RDNA2 over RDNA1, then this product should line up pretty closely. RDNA1 and 2 were also on a similar node/process, so at 5nm would be another big bump.

ID: hequht8

This one is 6N though.

TSMC does not have '5nm' or '7nm'. It is 7N, 6N, 5N, etc. They don't use 'nm' in the process name.

7 : Anonymous2021/09/29 15:29 ID: heqe93o

When it comes to rumors Igor is more often wrong, than right.

ID: heqy5ti

It doesn't come from them.

8 : Anonymous2021/09/29 16:24 ID: heqmgwl

With 128MB cache I expect it to be slower at 4k but it could easily be faster at 1080p and 1440p if it clocks higher and shader efficiency had improved.

ID: herxxwj

"then we doubled it" - Jay Wilson

9 : Anonymous2021/09/29 19:00 ID: her9h8d

I think chip will have similar configuration to Navi 21 and reduced CUs are for yields. Probably perfect dies will land in top-end MCM card while this, as a mid-range card, would have to be reasonable to mass produce it. And performance deficit from 20% less CUs should be easily more than recovered by a mix of improved IPC from new uArch and improved clocks from better node.

10 : Anonymous2021/09/29 21:00 ID: herrci9

All of which is all very well and good for all y'all High-falutin' high-enders out in PC-land, But if a 7600xt could outperform a 6900xt at three-quarters the wattage, I'd love to see what a 7300 (xt or no) or below could do for 1080p and the low end.

EDIT: I Re-read the comments below, and adjusted my expectations accordingly.

11 : Anonymous2021/09/29 22:20 ID: hes2bdi

Rumors for GPUs that are a year away are almost never true.

13 : Anonymous2021/09/29 13:35 ID: hepyczz

It's not unreasonable with the insane amount of Cache. This would have twice the L3 cache of the 6900XT, probably with faster memory, and faster clocks.

14 : Anonymous2021/09/29 17:32 ID: heqwrgk

Memory bandwidth efficiency has gotten crazy, even on this generation.

The 6600XT is a 128 bit memory bus, yet beats a 1080Ti with a 352 bit memory bus in everything.

The 1080Ti had 484GB/sec bandwidth and a 352 bit bus.

The 2070s had 448GB/sec bandwidth and a 256 it bus.

The 5700XT had 448GB/sec bandwidth and a 256 bit bus.

The 6600XT has 256GB/sec bandwidth and a 128 bit bus.

All of the above are pretty close, performance wise, within 15% or so and the 1080Ti is the slowest in most cases, with the 6600XT coming out on top in most cases -- sometimes beating a 2080, sometimes losing to the 2070S.

We'll have to wait and see how much memory bandwidth efficiency this they are able to achieve. I suspect the top end Navi 33 model will use 18gbps memory instead of the 16gbps that the 6600XT has. Add another 30% memory bandwidth efficiency and yeah, its plausible that the thing would be 45% faster than a 6600XT all around. Even if it fell short of that and was 'only' 30% faster -- in the 6800 range, that would place it between the 3070 and 3080 at a ~$400 price point (assuming crypto mining has crashed by then).

15 : Anonymous2021/09/29 17:43 ID: heqyaqo

If they double down on cache, it won't even hurt until very high resolutions.


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