Recently turned team Red and uh, is it supposed to be this hot?

1 : Anonymous2021/09/28 16:41 ID: pxacuh

I turned team red and slapped my aio h100i on the 5800x and I am a little concerned. At “idle” it would jump around 28C-35C and from the smallest load (such as installing softwares) it will jump to 50-70C within a span of two seconds. My AIO literally gets caught off guard every time and spins up like crazy only for the temp to drop again. I’m thinking maybe i didn’t seat the pump correctly so I’m going to grab a new thermal paste and try to be a little more generous this time. But before I do that I wanted to know what you guys think.

2 : Anonymous2021/09/28 19:01 ID: hemoc9w

You're fine. Just to explain what's happening, the ryzen cpus report the temperature of the hottest part of their logic, and the 5800x is the most power dense of the Ryzen cpus - it has the same power limit as the 16 core 5950x but in half the silicon volume. Since power becomes heat, those hottest parts get toasty. On top of that the transistors are packed tighter than they are on intels 14nm parts - so even on the parts like the 5950x the heat is concentrated on a smaller area.

The power going in hasn't changed though, so even though the temperature is higher (because more energy in a smaller volume) the actual amount of energy that temperature represents is still the same, and the same cooling solutions still work just fine.

It does mean you have to think about fan curves differently though. The CPU temperature basically doesn't care what the fans are doing as long as the heatsink (or coolant, for water) is cool enough, so the ideal setup is to ignore the cpu temperature entirely and run the fans based on the heatsink or coolant temperature.

Unfortunately, most motherboards don't let you do that yet.

ID: hense45

Motherboards might not, but there is a nifty utility called FanControl that will let you assign any temperature sensor it can see to any fan it can control. There is also a plug-in that allows you to assign sensors that it can't see but HWiNFO can. I believe that it can see telemetry from *some* AIOs.

ID: henv6u6

Huh, I use argus monitor for this but might give this program a shot. Looks nice.

ID: henyjdz

He has an h100i so he should set his curve in iCue and choose which temp. probe to base it off of.

ID: hepg9hq

Oh, that one is great! Arguably takes a bit of time to get used to it compared to the usual fan speed tools, but once you got the idea behind the UI it's super versatile.

I've used it to simply limit the slew rate of the fan curve. That way it sorta mimics the temperature curve of the heatsink and the annoying spin-ups during short bursts are smoothed out.

ID: heqg2jn

Unfortunately, most motherboards don't let you do that yet.

MSI has smoothing for fan speed so it wont react on fast temp change. Together with fan curve change you can make perfect profile very easily

This CPU is rated for 24/7 90c so I run it silent with 85c limit

65c 30%

75c 40%

85c 60%

3 : Anonymous2021/09/28 17:59 ID: hemf8m5

Unless temps go above 85C or thereabouts or fail to go below about 50C you can just ignore them, Ryzen's temperature reporting is very different than Intel's with very minimal smoothing. Set your AIO to not even start to ramp until about 72C.

ID: hemrnv7

This is the best answer.

ID: hep28f4

Or set fans to ramp based on water temperature, if available.

ID: hep8x8s

Also seriously consider benchmarking ECO mode, the differences in your use case may be insignificant, but the wattage drop is insane.

As long as the components are in their safe operational range you don't need to care about it at all, the only thing that matters is the total output of the system, because that gets to your room. I don't think you can easily get to the point where efficiency gained by lowering the operating temperature will offset the energy spent on cooling the components.

4 : Anonymous2021/09/28 18:54 ID: hemnauc

Im guessing he hasnt seen the latest intel temps since the 8th gen..

ID: hemnw25

Spot on. My last cpu was 8600k

ID: hen8yw0

Despite all the power they use, Intel CPUs generally run pretty cool. A benefit of using large cores & a large die. I guess it's the only benefit of staying on an older node.

Like I can run 250-260W through a 11700k and still stay around upper 80s on a D15. Stock at 180W in CB23 it hits 70c.

ID: henonel

There are some variables that control the temperature you see, assuming you have a correctly mounted decent cooler. Stuff like the thermal medium used inside the CPU to connect the actual chips to the outer metal plate (that plate is IHS / internal heat spreader), the mounting pressure of your cooler or even the position of temperature sensors inside the CPU (the probe might not be in the hot spot).

But one thing is certain: your CPU doesn't break the laws of physics, so 250 W consumed by the CPU will result in 250 W of heat that needs to be carried away by your cooling solution. It has nothing to do with the manufacturing node and all to do with basic high school physics.

ID: heoz2nr

Exactly my point on an H115i 280mm AIO it hits 75 degrees on CB23 all core bench for the 11700k. I wouldn't call that cool especially considering the cooler. Its just how it is with modern CPUs they are pushing it to the limits

Edit: Was in relation to techpowerup review the H115i cooler

ID: heo2nyt

9900k on noctua nh-l9i not bad lolol

5 : Anonymous2021/09/28 17:19 ID: hem9fbk

I have a 5900x with a custom loop, a 5600x on a big air cooler and a 5600g on a low profile cooler. All three run at 75° to 80°, it feels lie the cpus try to boost as high as possible until that threshold is met, even when running a download, so I assume they're just tuned to have to chill, literally.

ID: hemak4h

With my 5900x. How am I getting cooler temps than you but I only have a 240mm AIO. Temps never go above 70

ID: hembw6t

I'm not sure, mine boosts up to 5.1ghz in games and 4.6ghz all core which might be excessive. It also has a 3080ti in the loop but I have 600mm of radiator so that shouldn't be a cause. I'm sure there's a simple answer like voltage being too much for me or my room being too hot.

ID: hend3b0

That's just how the Precision Boost 2 algorithm works.

Basically as long as voltage/current/frequency limits aren't being exceeded, the chip will use temperature as it's limiter and scale performance with the cooling.

I'm also running custom water on my 5800X with PBO enabled, and I also see similar temps to decent AIO's and high end air coolers. But I'm also usually bettering their benchmark scores even though I have pretty average silicon.

On the other hand, there are also lottery winning 5800X's on midrange air coolers that outscore my water cooled chip, so better cooling isn't always the deciding factor.

ID: hent4xj

PBO vs no PBO?

6 : Anonymous2021/09/28 17:33 ID: hembi8p

Yes. Ryzen is designed in this way. Expect temp jumps.

7 : Anonymous2021/09/28 18:52 ID: hemmzha

its how they are designed to work.
workload adjustments is 2ms or so.
adjust fan for continuous drift.

8 : Anonymous2021/09/28 16:42 ID: hem40e4

70 is a bit hot for downloads. Otherwise normal

ID: henkylv

I get higher temps downloading steam games than actually playing steam games on my 5600x with an aio

ID: heqbzzu

steam downloader is very crypto/decompress heavy.

Games mostly just run basic instructions. (lots of them, sure, but relatively basic.)

ID: hem486u

I knew that Ryzen runs a little hot but i thought 70c for installing steam was a little excessive lol. I’ll try reapplying thermal paste and see how it goes then

ID: hembug6

its not ryzen per se, its just the 5800X its a single CCX cpu so the heat doesnt spread like on a 5600X or 5900/5950 X (dual CCX) and is just focused on one spot

ID: henef4z

Ngl Steam downloader and game installer are actually pretty resource-intensive, as they are constantly unpackaging compressed files (to save on download size).

The boost logic is also different for AMD. For a short period after the core comes off a multi-core workload, the voltage spikes to provide the highest available clock speed to a smaller number of cores. Hotspot goes up and the CPU cooler ramps up as a result.

9 : Anonymous2021/09/28 16:43 ID: hem481f

Yes, yes it is. Your idle temps look great, I to thought the same thing switching from intel. Zen 3 do be toasty. You could put it in eco mode to tame the boosts. /undervolt

ID: hem4f8g

Toasty seems a bit of an understatement. I looked at the temps and thought “that doesn’t look right”. 70C for installing Steam though?

ID: hem4v00

I've done a fair bit of searching about the 5800x and it's temps and its notorious for being toasty. Thankfully your idle is fine, others are stuck at 50c. Out of the box, it's been known to have some funky voltage, the only solution being to undervolt / eco mode it. Here's an example of some of the problems, I don't think your chip is like this though:

10 : Anonymous2021/09/28 17:23 ID: hema0c9

use eco/power saver mode so the cpu doesnt get trigger happy on PBO when you do something mundane like moving your mouse. but it will still ramp up to full speed when youre gaming or intense loads

ID: hen6ffn

If the games uses more cores than just the usual 4 then it will absolutely effect performance

11 : Anonymous2021/09/28 18:03 ID: hemfut9

Same initial fear here. But after reading all the other post and understanding that the Ryzen preloads more power than need on low loads I became comfortable with the temperature spikes.

This brief summary may be helpful. In the past CPUs would draw the power they needed in real time based on demand. AMD changed the design of the Ryzen to preload power when it detects a low load so the power is already available as it anticipates the use will do other task. Sure this is a less energy efficient design but for a desktop the trade off is probably worth it. Consider this, many PSUs have the wattage equivalent to a microwave.

12 : Anonymous2021/09/28 17:05 ID: hem7eo2


13 : Anonymous2021/09/28 17:52 ID: hemea2u

What program are you using to measure temps and what sensor are you looking at?

In any case, downloading and installing software usually implies a lot of unpacking large files, which can be CPU intensive. If you are looking at CPU Tctl in particular, only having a single core boosting can make temps go quite high, even if the average for the whole die is low.

I'll make sure if PBO is enabled by default on your board.

14 : Anonymous2021/09/28 20:07 ID: hemxnr3

Completely normal

15 : Anonymous2021/09/28 20:25 ID: hen02uu

As long as it doesnt pass 80c during load I wouldnt worry.

Try adjusting fan curve, maybe something like;

80c = 100% fan speed

60c = 50% fan speed

40c = 30% fan speed

Also increase fan rev/up down time (using 15.9s myself)

ID: henfs4f

You'll like your system better if you use coolant temp instead of cpu temp. Something like 30c - 50%, 35c - 75%, 40c - 100%.

ID: heoqaqt

Dont think I have that option. And most case fans are connected to same controller so I dont want fans to run too low during heavy use. I am tempted to try an external sensor for case temp.

16 : Anonymous2021/09/28 22:44 ID: henj1q2

A. It's fine, like all the other comments have said

B. Set your aio to react to the temperature of the coolant, rather than cpu temp. Cpu temp is fine to work off of if you want, but part of the nice thing about water is it will soak up the sporadic bursts of power that regular use brings REALLY well. The fans don't cool your cpu, the fans cool your coolant. The coolant cools your cpu, and if there's just as much coolant going by, the AMOUNT of cooling is the same, so long as the temp of the coolant is the same. So have the fans respond to that. That way you'll rarely even hear your fans at all unless you're doing something heavy for a long time with few breaks.

17 : Anonymous2021/09/29 01:19 ID: heo2tb6

I would consider myself lucky with your Temps. I haven't had the opportunity to change out my cooler since I purchased my wonderful pre-built. My casual video watching and online surfing keep my Temps around 45-70. If I play a game, it tops out around 83. Haven't hit 90 yet. Lol

18 : Anonymous2021/09/29 09:40 ID: hepci1c

That's good no need to worry Really good temps

19 : Anonymous2021/09/29 19:59 ID: heria46

Knew it would be a 5800X before opening the thread. Does nobody do any research before spunking their money away these days? You bought the hottest Ryzen chip. You should already know this and have planned for it. It is hot because it has a single fully-unlocked chiplet rather than two cut-down ones which in the case of the 5900X spreads out heat more evenly on the IHS.

20 : Anonymous2021/09/28 17:33 ID: hembj0i

That seems easy to hot for a big aio.


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