Windows 10 vs. Windows 11 on a mid-range AMD PC: how much performance loss is there really in practice? | igor´sLAB

1 : Anonymous2021/10/12 07:55 ID: q6h3y9
Windows 10 vs. Windows 11 on a mid-range AMD PC: how much performance loss is there really in practice? | igor´sLAB
2 : Anonymous2021/10/12 09:08 ID: hgc1mg7

Having Ryzen 9 3900X with 12 cores and 24 threads in your PC is considered mid-range system in 2021. How time flies.

ID: hgc7bj9

So you're telling me that all(most) desktop Intel cpu's and Ryzen 5 and 7 are low end?

ID: hgc9yi8

Funny thing is, technologically speaking, the R5 1600 was a mid range part back in 2017 because it was middle of the stack (4-6-8). Nowadays we use two CCD's instead of one. That would kinda put the 5600X into low end territory and the 5800X into mid range and perhaps the 12 and 16 cores into high end. Practically though, collective die size has increased and nodes have gotten more expensive so it could be argued either way. But most Ryzen 5's and 7's well they could be argued to be either low or mid range.

Edit: Yea, and that would really make things look bad for intel indeed.

ID: hgcga0j

what am I using with my old A8 6410 laptop then?

ID: hgc8b1y

Always have been!

ID: hgck6q4

Yea..that's why threadripper cpu's are labeled has High End Desktop or HEDT.

ID: hgcauzm

/looks at own config

/hides in shame

ID: hgcjzap

Let us shame you in a proper way, share your specs

ID: hgcnm01

If you can do the things you want to do and can play the games you want to play... then does relative performance really matter? As long as you get >60 fps at the resolution you want to play at then justifying major upgrades is pretty hard.

ID: hgcdtcl

That's fu*kin epic! 😉

Say that to 97% of people in the world that owns a lower spec system. 😉

Saying that a 3900x is midrange is a seriously wrong statement in 2021.

ID: hgcvxou

Thats like saying middle class is 400k a year.

Like sure, maybe. But the vast majority ain't really running that.

ID: hgcu2od

More like shows how fucking detached from reality these outlets are when they have full magazine of free shit they didn't even have to pay a dime for.

ID: hgch6do

It's like calling a Lamborghini mid-range because F1 cars exist.

ID: hgcjxst

Considering when I was in high school and Diablo 2 was just released, me and my buddy were arguing that even if we never deleted anything for the rest of our lives we could never fill up the 1gb hd I bought for my 450mhz AMD K6-2. You should consider your self lucky my guy. Pretty nuts though they just released Diable 2..funny how things work haha.

ID: hgcf4we

Checking in from my ancient 1800x and Vega 56.

ID: hgdrpen

How about i5 3570k and gtx 970 lol

ID: hgci3nh

I just upgraded to that from an i5-2500k and thought it was a good upgrade.

At least I'm on am4 now

ID: hgcnu6y

Hah, I’ve done the exact same thing a while ago. Such a jump in performance isn’t it?

ID: hgcn5th

Its really not though.

ID: hgdy7aq

Look at the article and the title

Windows 10 vs. Windows 11 on a mid-range AMD PC: how much performance loss is there really in practice?


The test platform was based on an AMD Ryzen 9 3900X processor and an Asus ROG Strix X570-E gaming motherboard with 2×8 GB DDR4-3600 G.Skill TridentZ CL16.

OP is making fun of the title as its calling a 3900x midrange pc.

ID: hgcjfsl

It is mid-range, in the context of AMD’s currently available, in-production desktop product stack. In the context of the current billion-plus installed base of Windows 10 PCs, it’s baller.

By analogy, imagine you went out and got a new fully loaded RAV4. Currently the best-selling new car, and priced right around $40k, which is today’s median new car price. In the universe of new cars, it is decidedly middle of the road, but it’s an amazeballs rocket-ship compared to the entire fleet, which in the US has a median age of, like, 11.6 years.

ID: hgcqqzm

Yea a 3900X is certainly not "mid range" it's still "high end". Maybe somewhat mid-range for gaming since the IPC and clock speed are below Zen 3 and Intel 10th/11th gen but it's still absurd to call it that.

ID: hgd002r

If you don’t have 32 cores / 84 threads in your PC then don’t even think of calling yourself a gamer! Pft I’m running quad 120/309s with a custom built Mountain Dew cooling loop.

ID: hgchv7y

its quite a subjective topic as there are no hard specification whether they are mid range or high end, imo 12cores 24 threads is still high end, 5800x 8c/16t is mid range and 6c/12t is low end. Whoever hopes for their 5600x to last long time in most demanding AAA games are setting themselves for a disappointment. Its not as bad as it was with intel 6c/6t i5's but 12threads these days is not that much and many demanding games can saturate all of them or utilize in some way.

ID: hgcu3vz

And yet gaming performance the 5600x blows the 3900x back out. The 5800x and 5900/5950 destroy it in any production tasks.

It isn't high end for anything anymore in AMD's lineup and it isn't beating out any of intels new CPUs either. It is effectively mid-tier now and will be for a while.

ID: hgcjp8q

It's not mid range. Capitalism, ever heard of it? A 3900X is in no way or form mid range, maybe in 5 years from now.

3 : Anonymous2021/10/12 08:59 ID: hgc12lt

When did a Ryzen 3900X + Radeon 6700XT become mid-range...

ID: hgc6ruw

The first page says 6700XT, but *all* the benchmark results say 5700XT. Which is inarguably a mid range GPU. 6700XT is basically upper midrange as well. Just cuz AMD raised the prices for these products doesn't mean they aren't still actually midrange parts.

And while a 3900X isn't a midrange CPU, for gaming, it actually is more in the midrange by current standards. Having 12 cores isn't really useful here.

ID: hgd6k7j

Lol, calling a 5700XT inarguably mid-range GPU is like calling a Lamborghini Huracan inarguable entry level sports car. The 5700XT is a mid-tier enthusiast GPU, but still very very much at the high end. Having one probably puts you in the top 5% of gaming PCs

ID: hgclahe

Yea, most people don't have any need for a 3900x and a 3700x would most likely be better for gaming because of the single CCD. When I switched from my 3900x to the 5800x it was a very noticable jump. I won't even recommend a 3000 gen ryzen or older for gaming unless it's cheap. Even my 5800x is a bit overkill. I wish I could get my hands on a 5600x cheap but it's probably way more than enough also a lot cheap and cooler to run. The first day I setup my reference 6900xt I had to turn my AC on. First match in MW my room was boiling. I don't know how anyone games on air with some of these high tdp hardware that's out here.

ID: hgcie8w

6700XT is basically upper midrange as well.

How would you rate a 1070GTX?

I don't think that is a low range card?

4 : Anonymous2021/10/12 10:50 ID: hgc8p38

Microsoft: We will implement Hypervisor-Enforced Code Integrity to protect everything and make it secure!!

Hacker: I will make the user click the "Yes, I trust this program I downloaded to participate in the Shitphone giveaway :)" button again.

ID: hgcb20z

Yeah, but would still work nicely for the enterprise, when clicking that wouldn't be an option.

ID: hgcocbv

Enterprise is the answer to all Windows related problems features

5 : Anonymous2021/10/12 08:43 ID: hgc00rl

Seems like a waste of time to do this comparison before the known Zen performance issues have been fixed.

ID: hgca9sy

At least it gives those us who are on the fence about upgrading. I have the R9 5900x and was potentially looking to do a clean upgrade in readiness for Halo Infinite and Forza Horizon 5 on game pass. But I'll wait until AMD releases a patch before I upgrade

ID: hgcb5om

I'm in the same camp. My Windows 10 installation is starting to have a few weird issues I can't be arsed to troubleshoot so I have been thinking about reinstalling it. With Windows 11, it seems like as good an opportunity as any to do a clean installation of that. I have a 3700X so I'll just wait for a little while until all the small issues are resolved.

ID: hgcdtzu

VBS and HVIC are what are causing the performance issues when people talk about that. They aren't standard, and don't come turned on automatically.

ID: hgdbiac

Triple the latency for L3 cache is not exactly a non-issue, especially for games, and neither is the lack of CPPC tag recognition and proper thread scheduling.

But again, Igor leaves out important details, like which W11 build he's using, because if he's using the latest dev build, the L3 issue is already patched, but if he's just using the official release build, then it's not.

And the CPPC issue will presumably be updated via an AMD Chipset driver pack and is definitely not patched, but with a 3900x which doesn't have crazy high single core boost, it may not make itself very apparent, since that's where they provide the power plan updates (ie scheduler) which handle the CPPC tags.

But as long as he does an "after" test to compare this versus the patched W11 build and tests the "software fix" for CPPC tags (again, that software fix is likely just going to be a Chipset driver pack), then this would be valid data to show whether or not those two issues have an impact on gaming as is believed.

6 : Anonymous2021/10/12 10:08 ID: hgc5joh

Personally I have had absolutely no issues with performance loss on Windows 11, in fact in work applications my performance improved on Windows 11. Maybe I'm just lucky.

ID: hgcgqq2

The taskbar is pathetic on multi monitor.

ID: hgcx36i

Look up ElevenClock on Github, it allows you to put the system clock on the second monitors taskbar. It's stupid that it isn't a native option, and the community has to fix it.

Here's a link if anyone wants to check it out: ElevenClock

ID: hgc6601

No I have had the same experience on both my machines.

ID: hgcdnq8

Same. These articles often fail to explain right off the bat that unless you have VBS, and subsequently HVCI on, there will be absolutely no performance degradation. You have to go way out of your way to turn those on in BIOS, and you normally wouldn't. It's not standard or anything remotely like that. They're just trying to get people worked up for clicks.

Windows 11, in fact, benchmarks slightly higher than Windows 10 does.

ID: hgcg8hv

Actually the write this in the article;

"If you are “only” upgrading from Windows 10, VBS and HVCI should not be enabled. You can also check this once with “Settings > Privacy and Security > Windows Security > Device Security > Kernel Isolation > Check Memory Integrity”. If, on the other hand, you install Windows 11 “clean”, i.e. without an update and from scratch, at least VBS should be enabled without HVCI."

So for someone like me, who installed Windows 11 "clean" (made a installation USB, format and install Win11), I might have VBS enabled (I'll check when I get home). I wouldn't say I went "out of my way" to do anything, I think it is pretty normal to do a "clean" install.

7 : Anonymous2021/10/12 12:36 ID: hgcihyy

The only mid range thing in that test PC is the amount of RAM

8 : Anonymous2021/10/12 11:51 ID: hgce1d1

If you're planning to buy a computer, the best one for your system (as of now) is just stick to Windows 10. Until Microsoft fix the performance issues with Windows 11, just stay with Windows 10.

Give it at least a year or two before Microsoft finally fix the kinks on Windows 11. Then you go ahead and made the switch.

9 : Anonymous2021/10/12 14:43 ID: hgcy6es

It's going to be interesting to see a re-test when AMD patches are applied to Windows 11. This is too much of a regression as of now, W11 is like 5% slower on average against W10. Some apps are hit super hard and perform 25% slower!

An operating system change like this should either be a moot point or improve performance and never a slowdown like this.

As Lemongrab would say: Unacceptable Condition!

10 : Anonymous2021/10/12 10:16 ID: hgc641o

For what it's worth on my 5600 machine it's actually about 2% faster in cinebench. Games seem identical after the upgrade.

12 : Anonymous2021/10/12 13:12 ID: hgcmfbx

It seems that, on laptops, Windows 11 improves performance and works well. On desktops, well, different story..

13 : Anonymous2021/10/12 11:37 ID: hgccrsl

Igors findings are identical to my experience.

BFV seems to be hit the most, but maybe it's just me.

A different thing I notice, is that system stability is higher. No/a lot less funky behavior in browser applications(Edge, Chrome, Steam etc.) and some others issue were ironed out.

14 : Anonymous2021/10/12 16:16 ID: hgdbo0c

BFV one of the few games that uses AVX and capable of maxing out a CPU. Makes sense that it would show the biggest performance dip. I think the downvotes are for the stability comment, which is not common and probably just something with your 10 install.

15 : Anonymous2021/10/12 11:04 ID: hgc9t7c

I've still yet to get the Windows 11 upgrade from the Windows Update Section of Windows 10 🙁 R5 3600X

16 : Anonymous2021/10/12 11:21 ID: hgcbacz

You can download it directly from Microsoft if you want it right now:

You don't have to wait for Windows Update.

17 : Anonymous2021/10/12 11:30 ID: hgcc4l3

Even then waiting for at least a few months is recommended.

18 : Anonymous2021/10/12 13:40 ID: hgcpw2w

Me with a Ryzen 5 3550H : I literally cannot afford to lose performance XD

19 : Anonymous2021/10/12 14:07 ID: hgctakn

What is SPECwks 3.1.0?

20 : Anonymous2021/10/12 15:20 ID: hgd3etv

Can't install the new AMD chipset drivers on windows 11

21 : Anonymous2021/10/12 15:51 ID: hgd8091

Hah, I built a "mid-range" system late last year on a R5 3600 and a RX 5600 XT. Guess that's considered low-end now.

22 : Anonymous2021/10/12 17:04 ID: hgdilg7

Every midrange or even high end system will eventually be low end relative to hardware released later.

23 : Anonymous2021/10/12 17:37 ID: hgdndz7

Of course, but I would have loved at least a single year of relevancy.

24 : Anonymous2021/10/12 17:06 ID: hgdiwbi

It's not complete trash. However the 3500X was always a bit lacking due to the fact that it doesn't have SMT.

25 : Anonymous2021/10/12 17:41 ID: hgdnzsw

I know it's not trash, I'm very happy with it, I don't really need to upgrade it to play games. What I meant is that some people just live in a bubble where everyone has the budget to buy the latest hardware every 6 months, so they label stuff based on a false measure. I don't know if it's to sell hardware or just ignorance.

26 : Anonymous2021/10/12 16:28 ID: hgddfoy

Random guess 7%

27 : Anonymous2021/10/12 16:31 ID: hgddx2b

Well, Okay. I guess I don't even have a midrange PC.

28 : Anonymous2021/10/12 20:33 ID: hgeddsp

Mid-range AMD pc: Ryzen 3900X, 16 GB 3600 MHz, Raden 5700 XT.

Igor climbs in his budget Lamborghini Murcielago and disappears in the horizon.

29 : Anonymous2021/10/12 21:12 ID: hgej1sz

Ryzen 3900X and RX 6700XT as mid range?


30 : Anonymous2021/10/12 12:37 ID: hgcij3x

This is Vista all over again. Windows shells look something out of KDE and it requires much more processing power. What.

31 : Anonymous2021/10/12 16:32 ID: hgde1cg

Yeah: windows is copying Linux now... which means Linux is leading design. Linux is better.

32 : Anonymous2021/10/12 16:30 ID: hgddq1g

There’s performance improvements if you go to Linux with amd (they literally work better).

Windows 11 is just... a sad copy of popOS. It’s time to let windows die


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