- More issues with Ryzen and Windows 11
I’ve found what looks to be an issue/bug with Windows 11 with AMD CPUs that might catch reviewers out. If you install W11 with a 5950X for example, and then change to the 5800X or really any other Ryzen CPU, the L3 latency increases...
posted by @HardwareUnboxed
(Github) | (What's new)
I’m going to use W10 until Microsoft kill it.ID: hiswvus
After trying to persist using Windows 11 for two weeks, I had to go back. Trying to add Android app support right now is an issue since the Android subsystem corrupts itself within a given time, requiring you to remove it and reinstall it and every single Android app occasionally. Here are some other problems I encountered.
Windows 11 is neither good as a desktop or tablet UI. If I try to tap on pinned apps on the taskbar, they refuse to open. Single clicking with the mouse works but not single tapping. I have to tap and hold to summon the dialog menu to actually open the thing. Likewise, swiping from left on a tablet screen no longer works to pull up the list of all running apps. Instead, I have to do a very awkward three finger swipe upward from the middle of the screen to get the list of all running apps. I cannot tell how often getting Windows to detect it as three fingers takes a double or triple take.
I also work for a company that specializes in TBI/SCI rehabilitation for our clients and this new tablet interaction is totally unfriendly to those of our clients with dexterity limitations in their extremities. The fluffy talk at Microsoft about accessibility at the last Surface event ignores the major accessibility issues introduced in Windows 11. Whoever established all these revised touch interactions for the UI was an absolute dunderhead.ID: hitn7s2
I think Microsoft genuinely thinks they care about accessibility, they just don’t grasp the many how bad at it they are in some regards.ID: hit61mv
I upgraded to Windows 11 just days ago on my main laptop (the only eligible)... because it appeared on Windows update and I was thinking that AMD had already fixed all the issues in the October updates. Big mistake. Hardly any improvements over Windows 10 apart from a less cluttered virtual desktops overview and the tiling assistant. Should have waited at least 3 months for things to settle down.ID: hit8len
It is not AMD who needs to fix things. It is Microsoft, just because there is an issue with a certain brand, that doesn't mean it is automatically the manufacturers fault.
Has anyone tried reinstalling your chipset drivers, or even uninstalling the CPU drivers in Device Manager, rebooting, and letting the system reinstall the drivers automatically?ID: hit554t
Doesn't help, they said it in repliesID: hit8xzo
How about triggering the OOBE setup? Like how this old Paragon (Adaptive Restore I think) tool "resets" the OS for a big hardware change like a new motherboard or changing the SATA mode.
Guess that makes sense, To my LIMITED understanding, L3 cache size difference between the 2 chips & some of the security features relating to the windows 11 install (TPM/Secure something in antivirus) lock hardware settings in place & require a new sign in to update, Assuming they have not bypassed this with the unplug lan during install trick. All this said Was Cmos cleared? & did it affect it?
If they want a W11 story in the meantime should look into why INTEL isn't updating Lan drivers for windows 11 (on Both brand MB's), then blaming Motherboard manufacturers claiming there MB isn't supported due to the only feature not meeting requirement being the INTEL Lan. (If you update from Win10 you want to go to services & disable Intel PRoset & watch your webpages load faster, UNLESS you use HTTP over DNS in which case bypasses the issue... There is more, but thats enough for this post.ID: hisohhd
as they wrote in a follow up, the only way to "fix" it is a clean install after every cpu swap
What if you do it the other way and install a 5800x and then switch to the 5950x will the latency decrease? 5900/5950x still is not to Windows 10 level of performance.ID: hit75a7
I am pretty sure its to do with changing either direction... not just one direction. 5800x to 5950x will increase latency.... 5950x to 5800x will increase latency.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t intel getting the red carpet treating for the big.Little CPU’s where as AMD looks like it’s getting hand me down treatment.ID: hisu32v
Ultimately this hurts Windows 11 adoption and reputation. Not only does this scare off every AMD user, it makes Win11 look like a buggy POS not ready to be installed on any system.
So I can't imagine Microsoft doesn't care. They just got lazy, it's just not ready, or some other pretty boring but inexcusable reason.ID: hitet5f
I interviewed at MS back in 2012 for an SDET position. I actually asked them point blank wtf happened with Vista, because both XP and 7 were way better and less buggy in comparison.
The answer? They had QA entirely in-house on XP and 7, but outsourced it completely for Vista. The hiring manager then mentioned that they were going with a balanced in-house/outsourced approach for 10, which I freely admit was a major contributor to me not being an early adopter of 10, despite the fact that it ended up being pretty solid too. I expected the finance knobs got power again and pushed for more outsourcing (again) on 11, with predictable results (again).ID: hit05h2
Microsoft doesn't care. Most business computers are still on Intel anyway, and most consumer people don't know or care enough. The enthousiast crowd that also have amd cpus are a small minority.ID: hit2ue1
Its an odd release. Windows 12 will be much better.ID: histlaa
You are correct. You seem slightly surprised, though. Perhaps you are unaware of the extent of the history of this behavior. If so, a few searches for the term "Wintel" might give you insight on its origin.ID: hitexpy
that terms refers to the tying of Microsoft to the x86 architecture, not necessarily an extreme allegiance to Intel.
AMD and Microsoft do share a close relationship as well.
There is literally zero benefit for Microsoft to favor one x86 vendor over the other.ID: hith516
If so, a few searches for the term "Wintel" might give you insight on its origin.
In other words, you have no argument, just some vague "Do the research" proclamation. lolID: hit2zhi
It just means that Intel are far more on it with their hardware support than AMD. Microsoft are working with bothID: hit79na
No, these issues have had to do with a mix of the Task Scheduler in Windows 11 working in a way that has a negative impact to memory latency due to poorly placing workloads across different chiplets. (which was co-developed with Intel) and the TPM/security policies employed by Windows 11 which are locking hardware config policies until Windows is reloaded.
Even with this specific example Hardware Unboxed stated they reinstalled the AMD drivers/software and it did not resolve. The only thing that did was reinstalling Windows 11 entirely.ID: hit98ei
Holy crap dude, you are talking alot of BS in this thread. Please stop spreading false information.ID: hit9vxy
Intel was working directly with Microsoft on this. Its no secret and was announced months ago.
This could be devastating for reviews if the same happens with everyone elseID: hism2yl
Yeah the reviews are going to be a mess if this is true.ID: hismkvo
What a convenient bug for Intel!ID: hith80s
Are you really suggesting that Microsoft did this on purpose to help Intel?ID: hitgdet
more like what a convenient fig leaf forto spend the next 6 months crying about when the benchmarks don’t have them on top, only to be forgotten when Zen4 or some future release puts them back on top.
if this bug is true there’s also no reason the Intel configs wouldn’t have their hardware configs locked too, right? So this is just something reviewers are going to have to adapt to moving forward.ID: hismwk2
I don't understand why. Reviewers should notice that the scores don't align with last year's review scores, right?ID: hisoqcf
well last year we didnt have win11, thats a win11 specific problem - windows10 didnt have said problem, just swap, let windows do its job and roll
I think I'll install Windows 11 in December or so.
December 2022, that is.
Well its not a usual bug but it will be pain in the ass for Tech reviewers.ID: hiskc2a
It's fairly common advice to reinstall windows if a new CPU is acting strangely.
Very unfortunate, so many tech channels will have to retest all of the CPUs before November 4th, this adds additional minutes for every cpu tested:/
Not everything is a conspiracy
Wonder if they re-install their chipset driver each time they change CPU. I know for sure that you need to do it when changing from a 3000 series CPU to a 5000 series CPU (mentioned in the tweets), because the power plans are different for those CPUs and that gets installed with the chipset driver. Even between Ryzen 5000 CPU's i would re-install the chipset driver when swapping.
I thought AMD guidance was to reinstall the chipset drivers after a CPU change? Maybe that will clear it up.
Windows Vista: bad Windows 7: good Windows 8: bad Windows 10: good Windows 11: …ID: hitl424
10 is a mess, not a good OS.
Why would anyone bother with windows 11 at this point unless u bought a new system and it was preinstalled? Like others have said I'm going to use Win10 until Im forced to upgrade
Following the pattern - every other Windows is shit.98 OK Millennium shit XP OK Vista shit 7 OK 8 Shit 10 OK 11 ShitID: hitd1dy
You conveniently left out Windows 2000..
Windows 11 is just Windows 10 with some new features (Like Auto HDR and getting direct storage).
Microsoft could have made it a Windows 10 update, but this way they could stop support for old hardware.ID: hitdv6t
Windows 2000 was not a consumer OS - it was part of NT workstation line.
Unfortunately in this day and age, average consumers have become the new beta testers. Windows 11 is a classic example of "we have broadband internet now, ship it broken and fix it later". It is not what I would consider "final release ready" but feels like work in progress. I recommend anyone to hold out from upgrading for at least some 3 months until Microsoft releases a sizeable bunch of patches.ID: hithbda
All major operating systems are a constant WIP and never a 'final release'.
Windows 7 had loads of problems before Service Pack updates addressed many of them as well, just as an example.
Being a little patient is a good idea if you dont want to deal with early adopter issues, though. As always.ID: hitl33g
Win 98, Win98se
Win 2k had 4 service packs
WinXp had 3 service packs
Vista had 2
This is nothing new.