[TPU] AMD ROCm 4.5 Drops “Polaris” Architecture Support

1 : Anonymous2021/11/11 13:07 ID: qrkxl6
[TPU] AMD ROCm 4.5 Drops "Polaris" Architecture Support
2 : Anonymous2021/11/11 13:47 ID: hk79hui

No AMD, when we said we wanted you to work on hardware support, we meant more, not less.

3 : Anonymous2021/11/11 13:13 ID: hk75ghc


ID: hk76yhc

I guess they ran into even more problems with polaris cards generally, while trying to fix and add the RX480 back to ROCm.
Probably would take too much time, effort and money.

This sucks. I was kind of expecting them to actually get my card back to the ROCm but then this happens...

ID: hk840og

Probably nobody knows how Polaris ROCm and drivers work at this point, so they chose the easy way out in removing support, I've seen issues with Polaris cards that are years old at this point on the AMDGPU driver. They just don't care even though Polaris cards are still sold as new, really all GPU vendors are extremely scummy these days...

ID: hk8j53d

So far I have found no indication that we removed support - it's looking like a bug resulting from all the build/packaging/install changes we made in 4.5.

ID: hk769pe


ID: hk76egj

This means dropping a card as new as 3 years old…

ID: hk76guv

Worst time to do it aswell

ID: hk7t1fc

Due to HW limitations it can't run ROCm properly, so when it previously was listed as supported it was a buggy mess.

4 : Anonymous2021/11/11 16:35 ID: hk7waik

Some people were probably hoping to use their Polaris with the shiny new Blender 3.0...

Dear AMD, I am not much of a gamer anymore. I'd rather use Blender. Step up your game.

Blender 3.0 (still) runs on my ancient GTX970 card, I've got Optix denoising, and it even runs faster than Blender 2.8x did on the same hardware, even with scenes that are too big to fit in the limited video memory.

ID: hk8kul6

This is exactly my situation. I had a lot of issues with rx480 in blender and most of the time it was because of driver bugs and generally poor support. ROCm was promised to fix the situation and now that Blender 3.0 dropped opencl I'm stuck with a card that can't render anything.

And it's not like I can buy anything else right now for obvious reasons.

ID: hk9z81b

I saw on Blender's roadmap that they are working towards implementing Vulkan, so that could potentially serve as a replacement for OpenCL.

EDIT: I read further and see now that HIP is the current replacement they've chosen for OpenCL. Not sure what they'll do with Vulkan, but it would be useful for supporting Nvidia, AMD, and Intel under a single API.

ID: hk8p56g

Well, OpenCL has been taken out of Blender as of 3.0. Apparently AMD cards are going to use something new, called HIP. However if AMD is dropping support for that GPU generation in ROCM, that does not bode well.

I've done some searching around online but I can't find much about how this will work. What GPU generations will be supported by HIP? Apparently AMD is pushing to incorporate some sort of GPU-based denoising into Blender (similar to Optix), which is definitely a good thing.

Doing denoising on the GPU speeds up the viewport, even if all the ray tracing is still being done just on the CPU, because it offloads work.

But ideally people on Polaris will not be left out in the cold here.

ID: hkandgq

But AMD are tiny indie hardware hardware developers - how could they possibly support hardware for more than 5-6 minutes?

5 : Anonymous2021/11/11 20:27 ID: hk8uztd

Wow. ROCm hardware support is stripped more and more away while neither Navi 1x nor Navi 2x are supported.

I get that datacentres are the main focus here, but at this point, Radeon cards are basically useless if you do pretty much anything other than gaming due to their limited feature set. Whenever i need GPU acceleration when working from home, I really regret going with Radeon again for this generation.

6 : Anonymous2021/11/11 16:47 ID: hk7y43o

Wow, what a stab in the back. AMD gpus for compute are basically a scam at this point.

I bought the Rx480 instead of 1060 because of the vram for blender but it was a massive mistake.

You buy a new one but you find out that it's buggy. You're supposed to wait until they fix it. Then they decide that they want to rewrite the entire compute stack so you wait some more. And finally when they are supposed to release it they drop support for the card that you have.

Then you buy a new one and the story repeats itself.

Absolutely shameless!

ID: hkanho2

You buy a new one but you find out that it's buggy. You're supposed to wait until they fix it. Then they decide that they want to rewrite the entire compute stack so you wait some more. And finally when they are supposed to release it they drop support for the card that you have.

Then you buy a new one and the story repeats itself.

bbbut this time it'll be different we swears! -AMD

ID: hk8e6sm

That’s why Nvidia leads in the space!!! Plug-play is the new way!!!

7 : Anonymous2021/11/11 13:55 ID: hk7aeoe

Meanwhile RDNA and RDNA 2 cards are still waiting for support...

ID: hk7lqz6

Consider those RDNA1 cards dropped soon by AMD as they cant do DX12U.

ID: hk85j1b

I think RDNA is added as supported in this version. I was able to install ROCm on a 6600 machine, and at least rocm-smi works.

ID: hk8vgnl

Only the 6900Xt was added... and Polaris being dropped is a just a bug. The whole article here is a nothingburger with no references to any official statement by AMD. And AMD's people in this thread are saying.... guess what its a bug.

8 : Anonymous2021/11/12 00:12 ID: hk9pn0r

They say it's better to have ROCm'd and lost than to have never ROCm'd at all. I'm starting to lose hope that my 5700XT will find true ROCm.

9 : Anonymous2021/11/11 19:54 ID: hk8q84y

So... AMD GPUs people generally have less confidence in buying because of the poorer driver support than nvidia.

And the AMD business plan therefore is to pull the plug on drivers for cards up to about 3 years old that are still available as new now?

That's some pretty BS right there.

I've occasionally been tempted when I see an RX 6600 up for a good price, was even tempted by a black friday deal on an RX 6900 recently ... but shesh, this brings back the knowledge they just cant do card support properly.

ID: hk8r01d

ROCm runs only on Linux and what r u describing is the reverse there with Nvidia having garbage drivers vs the AMD open-source ones.

10 : Anonymous2021/11/11 16:23 ID: hk7ugev

It's not really fitting here, cause this is only a hint for Windows-users, but on guru3d is a guy, who mods the official drivers, so that you can install them on older architectures:

There are 3 packages for the following architectures/graphic-cards.

Desktop: RX400, RXVega, RX500, RX5000, RX6000
Mobile: RX400M, RXVega, RX500M/X, RX5000M, RX6000M
Desktop/Mobile Ryzen Vega Supported from Zen 1 to Zen 3

Desktop: HD 78xx, R200, R300, R Fury
Mobile: HD 78xxM, HD 8xxxM, R200M, R300M, R400M
Desktop/Mobile APU: Mullins, Kabini, Kaveri, Godavari, Carrizo, Bristol Ridge, Stoney Ridge

Mobile: HD 5xxxM, HD 6xxxM, HD 7xxxM - 76xxM
Desktop/Mobile APU: Bobcat, Zacate, Trinity, Richland

Perhaps it's useful for someone.

ID: hk8uais

It's not needed on Linux because GPUs based on GCN 1-3 and even older GPUs based on TeraScale still receive driver support.

ID: hk9fama

Linux is the way.

11 : Anonymous2021/11/11 13:51 ID: hk79y7k

They didn't even bother to list it under Deprecations!:

ID: hk8vk9a

Because its a bug and the article doesn't even provide any references for the assertion that AMD dropped support because they didn't.

12 : Anonymous2021/11/12 00:06 ID: hk9owha

Well, that sucks. RX560.

13 : Anonymous2021/11/12 14:00 ID: hkbzqnh

I realize this is like trying to hold back the tide, but I still have not seen any sign that we did disabled support. All indications are that this is a bug which slipped in while we were reworking the build/packaging/install logic for 4.5 as part of unifying the AMDGPU-PRO and ROCm stacks.

Recommendation from OpenCL management was to file an internal bug ticket to our CQE teams to find out what happened, and I am working on that now.

14 : Anonymous2021/11/11 14:12 ID: hk7cmq6

I'm not a ROCm user. Thankfully. Just reading the release note, the GPU support is spotty at best. Seems to me like this is decidedly not aimed at any consumer cards.

ID: hk82aq9

This is decidely short-sighted then because Nvidia's CUDA is supported for EVERY GPU they produced during last 6+ years. Just FFS.

ID: hk8ih19

I think that AMD can sort CPU support out after it gets ROCm to be good enough. There are some capabilities that are only now being made available which were available for CUDA for years.

I'm sure that NVIDIA has like 100 times the budget for CUDA. I don't really know AMD's plan, but I think that the goal is first to make this viable for server GPUs, as that is often the final target of GPU software.

I do feel that it would have helped AMD and developers who are AMD fans if it would have supported more consumer GPUs and also Windows. Unfortunately even if AMD had a lot more resources, such an endeavour would take time. Still, I think it's something that AMD should strive for.

15 : Anonymous2021/11/11 13:38 ID: hk78drn

With contemporary GPUs priced out of reach, IT students are left with used older-generation graphics cards

It's worth pointing out this is a CUDA competitor...this isn't a consumer tech, and anybody who needs CUDA professionally would have the appropriate workstation card. Same should apply to ROCm, though it has so little market share they should really support as much hardware as possible.

Besides, as if "IT students" matter to anybody. It's such an incredibly niche market. Their university will provide the hardware and they've probably already got CUDA cards in their labs already. If AMD want to make inroads with CompSci students, they need to start donating hardware to universities.

ID: hk7iy2n

Nvidia happily supplied free of charge gpu's to those institutes as an investment of their CUDA development. I have never hear AMD doing such a thing.

that's the reason why they have such an extensive library. Good luck AMD.

ID: hk7ye1c

this isn't a consumer tech

It's very much consumer tech when it inevitably becomes supported (or unsupported) as part of commercial software; We aren't talking about niche subset of the market focused on Machine Learning, we're talking about Premiere, Photoshop, and Solidworks here.

The whole suite of adobe programs is basically an nvidia-only affair unless you prefer slower and buggier software with minimal support from both the hardware vendor and adobe.

ID: hk7hzno

AMD doesn’t have to do it, but NVIDIA always has and that’s one of the major reasons they’re ubiquitous and AMD is the off-brand nobody cares about.

It seriously always has been a massive on-ramp to the cuda ecosystem, the other major one being donations to universities / etc to get the hardware into places where students can do research work on it. Those are the people writing the code that drives the next 5-10 years of the market, and even if they don’t, they’re learning the skills they’ll use for the next 10 years. NVIDIA is making it easy to write stuff for their platform while AMD is going out of their way to cut off access.

And like, obviously right now if you wanted to do some ML and you wanted a card to do it, your options are a $5k enterprise card from AMD, or you can do some basic work on a $600 1080 Ti, right? And the full fat option from NVIDIA is the 3090, which is still cheaper than an enterprise card.

ID: hk89k2f

It's too late for AMD, CUDA is the standard. And it has a 10 year head start, which is an eternity in computing.

At this point, even Apple has a more consistent GPU compute approach. Which is nuts.

AMD is basically a non-entity in GPGPU at this point. Which is mind blogging.

16 : Anonymous2021/11/11 18:21 ID: hk8cg3v

The last time I read a story like this it was actually wrong. But now... If it doesn't work anymore and they say it's on purpose...

Edit: here's more info

/comments/qr5q6z/rocm_45_drops_support_for_amd_polaris_gpus/hk500r9?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3" class="reddit-press-link" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.reddit.com//comments/qr5q6z/rocm_45_drops_support_for_amd_polaris_gpus/hk500r9?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3

17 : Anonymous2021/11/11 22:59 ID: hk9gqtd

Polaris probably has less than a year of driver support left from AMD anyway, if Fiji is anything to go by.

ID: hk9xisd

On Windows not on Linux :>

18 : Anonymous2021/11/12 11:03 ID: hkbidbp

CUDA competitor btw

good guy radeon proping up one api

19 : Anonymous2021/11/11 14:57 ID: hk7igzw


They will never ever learn.

Ok than lets hope that this is the last chapter of blunders and start with a new page with RDNA, CDNA.

I do not see many chances to beat Nvidia but I'm just little bit of sick of dominance of one company and getting stuck to one brand of GPU for last decade and probably next decade too.

20 : Anonymous2021/11/11 17:36 ID: hk85jip

People forget this is Open-Source like their Linux drivers ;>

21 : Anonymous2021/11/12 00:21 ID: hk9qts6

If AMD continues to pull bullshit like these. My next GPU is definitely going to be a Nvidia GPU.

22 : Anonymous2021/11/11 19:47 ID: hk8p87h

They apparently killed Vega 10 support too, this is actually clown shit at this point.

ID: hk8wer6

No they didn't... basically RDNA2 and Vega 10/20 have first tier support , and Polaris and Hawaii have Tier 2 support. Sometimes things break that doesn't stop you from releasing for the GPUs where support works though.

ID: hk95moh

MI25 was deprecated

24 : Anonymous2021/11/11 17:23 ID: hk83i9q

Dropping the support for most popular architecture ever due to how competitive it was and how AMD had nothing else competitive to offer? Last GPUs were made at most 2 years ago! Nvidia still has up-to-date drivers even for 2014 year 9xx series (can't find when they EOLed the Kepler for apples-to-apples comparison).

25 : Anonymous2021/11/11 18:58 ID: hk8i2wk

(can't find when they EOLed the Kepler for apples-to-apples comparison).

Still gets security updates for 3 years too.

26 : Anonymous2021/11/11 20:33 ID: hk8vxz8

Yeah make comments like that when the article in question has no references and is just someone baiting you to make such statements... the fact is Polaris support is broken but not removed end of story.

27 : Anonymous2021/11/12 06:04 ID: hkawaqk

Polaris support is broken but not removed end of story.

That does not align with facts.

28 : Anonymous2021/11/11 19:05 ID: hk8j4iw

Soooo, no HIP support in blender for me?
(sorry if i didn't get it)

29 : Anonymous2021/11/11 17:28 ID: hk84aji

Hahahahahahhahahha Holy shit this is unreal. Even nvidia still support gtx 700 series and amd already plan to drop Polaris which is pascal competitor hahahahhahahahahahahahhaa. Amd gpu is a scam nobody should buy it untill they are on par with nvidia in terms of support.

30 : Anonymous2021/11/11 19:51 ID: hk8pr9b
31 : Anonymous2021/11/11 19:21 ID: hk8le2i

they support my gtx1030 im so happy i cant buy gpu because MVidia lead market.

32 : Anonymous2021/11/11 23:23 ID: hk9jxzn


33 : Anonymous2021/11/11 23:23 ID: hk9jy0x

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34 : Anonymous2021/11/12 05:20 ID: hkarzul

When amd was hemorrhaging money pre 2017 I could kind of understand why they wouldn't support old tech (3 years old is not that old though)

But now?

They really should be concentrating on support, to be better in every way than nvidia.

What a frigging shit move. How much they save with the cut. 500k? 3 engineer salaries?

But another reason to not buy amd products

35 : Anonymous2021/11/12 11:35 ID: hkbktwk

I have run into so many problems with ROCms compute stack. The OpenCL support is just terrible. I have so far found.. 8 or so bugs in their drivers, and none of them have been fixed, in some cases with years old tickets. Their old driver stack was way more stable

What's particularly bizarre, is that with one bug report I filed, they claim to have fixed it internally in april, but.. no public driver has ever been released with the fix. For 7 months? Which is just a bizarre software development process

I don't know what was going on with ROCm, but I wish that they would use the old OpenCL driver stack on windows, because the support provided via ROCm is full of bugs and broke so much code. Dropping support for cards that are in no way old at all is just the latest bizarre move in AMDs software ecosystem

The hardware is great. AMD needs to invest money in the software and stop squandering every single possible opportunity to beat Nvidia

36 : Anonymous2021/11/11 19:33 ID: hk8n5xn

Does OpenCL still work?

37 : Anonymous2021/11/11 20:34 ID: hk8w2gy

ROCm support is just broken at the moment you can run an older version untill it gets fixed this whole article is a reference free nothing burger.

38 : Anonymous2021/11/12 04:25 ID: hkalwqw

Polaris was listed as working but not supported, implying that now, with no support, it won't be fixed.


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