I'm not holding out much hope for a big enough Black Friday bargain on 5900x's over here to make it worth jumping the gun and not waiting for a 3D V-Cache version of the 5900x whatever they end up calling it.
My situation is rare in that I already have/had a 5900x/Strix-X570-F/4x8GB 3600C18 DDR4 ready to build, but promised my brother my 5900x when I bought into the Alderlake hype a few weeks ago and decided to switch platform to Alderlake.
Changed my mind but decided to keep my promise, so bought my brother a Strix B550-I mITX/2x16GB 3600C18 DDR4 for 'my/now his' 5900x. I still have my X570 and Ram and now need to buy myself either another 5900x or a 3D V-Cache 5900x or whatever they end up calling it.
Most of my Gaming will be high res high refresh rate VR with a small amount of 3440x1440 @ 60hz Ultrawide Flat gaming.
Forgot to mention, brothers new 5900x system will be running an RTX3070, Adobe Suite Productivity use-cases, Flat gaming on his 4K60 TV and PCVR too, whereas mine will be running an Strix RTX3090 for the use-cases I mentioned above and also some real-time Rendering with Twin-Motion of Sketchup Models I am building of my House and Reno and Interior Design plans, that I will then view and appraise, iterate on and show-off inside VR.
Are those the kind of use-cases that will benefit from all the extra cache in the Q1 2022 refresh of the 5900x or will it be a minimal or non existent improvement over a regular 5900x for my particular use-cases meaning that if I could order a 5900x for even €50 off on Friday I should jump on it rather than pay even higher than current 5900x MSRP for a chip that brings me no benefit whatsoever and might not even be available to anyone except bots till Spring 2022 leaving me still slogging away on my old 2016 i7 6700K till then (Cause I gave my brother my 5900x remember)
Mindfactory.de have the 5900x for €519 at the moment. (I'll need to use a reshipper to get it to Ireland so thats another €20 on top of that)
[EDIT] Amazon.de have it for €515+€7.50(p&p). Further €16 saving and less Return hassles because its Amazon. Think, I'm going to bite versus a 3 month+ wait and who knows what price and who knows what performance improvement for my use-cases if any.
[EDIT2] Ordered from Amazon............and then cancelled again a few hours later!! LOL They'd been close to that price earlier this evening, then disappeared from Amazon.de, (not available from this seller anymore) then re-appeared at about 11:30pm (Dispatched and Sold by Amazon) at the €515 (well €499 with German 19% Vat which converts to €515 when the Amazon Checkout changes it to 23% Irish VAT). I kinda felt a bit of pressure to buy in case it sold out at that price again and so I ordered. (Probably a psychological trick by Amazon and I fell for it! LOL) Re-read the replies here again though which refreshed my resolve and so I cancelled the order. Worst case scenario is CES2022 first week of January arrives and NDA's lift and its a Meh upgrade for most use-cases or its good but wide availability is still 2-3 months out and its at or above the 5900X's MSRP and I decide its not worth the extra cost or wait....and I end up picking up a regular 5900X early January. As some said I should be able to get a 5900x in early January for the same or less than I was going to pay Amazon just a few hours ago and really the only 'Cost' difference was an extra 6 weeks. Given the time of year and all I have going on in the run up to Christmas including building my brothers new PC with my 'old' 5900x, well I might not even get around to building my own PC with a 'new' 5900x I was going to buy now from Amazon, till after Christmas anyway.
Wait. Unless something terrible happens that disrupts the supply chain even worse, the 5900x will be even cheaper when Ryzen-V comes out. I'm in a similar predicament and it's taking a lot of discipline for me to not splurge on a new CPU. I'm betting on Ryzen-V being worth it.ID: hm43iyo
You don't know this. The 5900x could sit comfortably at $479 or $499 and the Vcache version could sit higher than $650. If it does get between 10-15% more performance over the current Zen3, then it will put it squarely back in the lead over Intel. Which means AMD can charge what they want again for having the best you can get.
I keep seeing this notion way too often that AMD will just lower the price of this and that. That is not a given. I don't think people realize just how expensive it is to 3D layer cache like they are doing. I'd be extremely surprised if the new 12 core Vcache CPU is under $650.ID: hm4arz4
Yeah id expect the v-cache models to be a minimum of $50 more, but more like over $75.
And remember that whatever prices AMD settles on for Zen 3, they have to deal with that for almost all of 2022 since Zen 4 is a late Q4 launch. So I doubt they are going to lower prices much unless 12th gen cuts deeply into their sales numbers.ID: hm53mlo
I can say with some confidence that Ryzen prices will drop absent of supply chain issues. It's happened with every single Ryzen generation, and now with the added pressure of Alder Lake. Without the pandemic and what came as a result, the Ryzen 3600 would be selling for $100 right now just like the 1600 did two years after its release.ID: hm6li99
Wait. Unless something terrible happens that disrupts the supply chain even worse,
You mean like a new strain of the corona virus that is super infectious?ID: hm7jdcf
The Delta variant is worse than the initial 2019 strain in every way. Ryzen 5000 still became more available and the prices dropped while that variant is still spreading. But sure, maybe this new variant is even worse. I did cover that already in part of my comment you highlighted. What point are you trying to make here that I didn't?
If you can wait, I don't think you will lose much. 500€ is pretty much the price of a 5900 around much of Europe anyway, and I don't think there is any reason it would go up, but will likely go down either before or after V-cache versions come out. That said, I doubt you will see any major differences in performance between the V-cache version and 5900X (I'm guessing 5-10% on most use cases, I do not know about the Adobe applications).ID: hm55p3q
Its the brother who will be using the Adobe Suite and he's getting my 'old' 5900x.
TBH, even if it just improves frame-timing in MSFS2020 in VR, then it'll be worth it to me and also in some of these PCVR games every frame counts if it keeps your 1% lows or whatever over a certain FPS where VR Motion Reprojection Frame Doubling/Tripling Tiers lie.
EG. Its unlikely given my desire for as much eye candy as possible that I could maintain 45FPS in MSFS2020 in VR even with a 6900x/RTX3090 and keep the Motion Reprojection in 45/90hz Frame Doubling Mode with minimal motion reprojection artifacts. However, if that 5-10% potential FPS uplift though appearing insignificant on the surface especially when talking about it taking a 250FPS game to 275FPS, well if it keeps the 1% lows above 30FPS where a regular 5900x perhaps couldn't, it means the game stays in 30/90hz Motion reprojection Tripling mode and wouldn't keep flip flopping into and out of the 22.5/90 Motion Reprojection Quadrupling Mode and all the artifacts that adds.
Get the v cache version or wait for amd's big little chip and compare to alder lake.
The new chip design with the little cores are just for spending more money, unless you're in a data center or doing graphic and video design.ID: hm3oq8d
Big.LITTLE amd chips aren't coming till 2023 iirc
Over 500 Euro for the 5900X is around the normal price, no?
So, there's no reason not to wait, price-wise.
The 3D cache will benefit VR (gaming in general), and I believe real-time rendering too, as cinebench likes cache.
Lastly, it's unlikely it'll all be scalped by bots, unless the 3D cache itself has bad yields, because there is not a shortage of CPUs. The 5600X and 5800X are on sale in most places at the moment.ID: hm3pd20
Outside of this week the 5900x seemed to be around the €580-€600 mark everywhere I looked....that would ship to Ireland or a re-shipper.ID: hm3pohb
The 5900X has been around £480 in the UK for a while, currently £450 in sales, is it possible for you to get it delivered from a UK site without huge fees?
I'm not sure how Brexit has affected Ireland.
The actual real world differences between a 5800x and 5900x are very minimal in games. If anything at all. They are basically neck and neck with most benchmarks the same within 1 percent. Its only in apps that need and use ALL of the cores where the 5900x really wins out.
The only other difference is that a 5800x has all the power and heat going into one CCD (along with the IOD) The 5900x has that spread out over twice as much silicon, for only 4 more cores, so keeping them cool is a lot easier. My 5900x barely breaks 37 degrees when gaming, where as the 5800x i had often hit the 50 degree mark.ID: hm3lhy6
Yes, this is all info I used to make my decision to get a 5900x originally instead of a 5800x. The question at hand for me now though considering that I am giving that 5900x to my brother, is whether I should buy another 5900x for myself now for €523 or wait 3 months+ for a 3D V-Cache version of the 5900x that may not even offer any performance difference for my use-cases and certainly won't be selling for €523. It'll be back up to 5900x Launch MSRP at least or even higher. I know another poster said that the launch of the V-Cache version will depress the price of the current 5900x even lower than these Black Friday prices, but that still leaves the 3 month+ wait.
So did you misread my question and think I was asking about whether to go for a 5800x or a 5900x??
Are you making the point that the cache difference between a 5800x and a 5900x made SFA difference to performance so we should assume that the cache difference between a 5900x and a V-Cache version will make SFA difference to most people (except 1080p 300FPS competitive FPS gamers)??ID: hm3o2h1
Making the point about the cache difference. It is "double" the cache but made barely any difference at all. I dont think v-cache will make that much of a difference in games. Maybe 5 percent tops. With the vanilla 5900xs dropping in price, i would wait till the bottom out, pick one up and then spend the excess cash on something that WILL make a difference, like a better monitor.
I'm somewhat in your predicament: want a 5900x but have a 5600x. Any thoughts here on upgrading or waiting?ID: hm4756h
In your case I would probably wait too for the same reasons as me. ie. a 6900x is either worth waiting for, worth paying €100 extra for or neither but we'll know the lay of the land first week in January when its launched at CES2022. So just after Christmas we'll know whether to wait and how much longer it will take to hit shelves and at what price point. Or that first week of January we'll know whether to buy a 5900x instead which will be immediately available to us to buy and likely for at or even below the current Black Friday prices of a 5900x.
The choice to wait is even easier for you because you can use a 5600x in the interim whereas I have to use my old/current 6700K which delays me building my Media Server with it that is my plan once its freed up from main rig service.ID: hm4gjpe
Super helpful answer with context and timeline. Thank you!
There may not be 6-core CCX models with V$ at all. I can easily see those being only 8/16-core models.ID: hm54t4q
Are you referring to a V-Cache 5600x or do you mean you think there will only be 8 Core CCX models with V-Cache, in other words 5800x's (1x 8/16 CCX) and 5950x's (2x 8/16 CCX)??
Didn't Lisa Su announce V-Cache and hold up a V-Cache 5900x chip which is 2x 6/12 CCX's.
That said, I agree thats its unlikely we'll see a V-Cache 5600X but I do expect to be able to buy a V-Cache 5900x.ID: hm55nz5
Nothing is set in stone yet. AMD have proven many times already they can forget their promises very fast. If they deem releasing V$ 5600x and 5900x model being bad for them for some reason they won't. But maybe we'll have a 5600x with a defective cache chiplet or something.
Anyway, if you need some CPU right now then buy it, if not, then maybe it's worth the wait, but then there will be announcement first, then release with scarse availability, then there will be already some new shiny thing on horizon.
Also maybe there will be people selling their 5900x right before V$ will be released and you can snatch one for cheap.
out in shops it be later like april/may.
maybe march but wont hold my breath for it
3 month ramp time. febuary.
one month to 2 months.
so april and forwardID: hm56eoq
That was my thinking too wrt to the availability timeline, and why I was leaning towards just ordering another 5900x now at Black Friday at a reduced price.
However, as others alluded to, its only 6 weeks till the CES2022 launch announcements and NDA's lifting and reviews or at least leaks. So I should know at the beginning of January whether a 6900x is worth waiting another 3 months for retail availability or if I should just order a 5900x at January Sales Prices or Post 6900x announcement depressed 5900x prices. ie. in all likelihood, I'll be able to pick up a 5900x first week of January for the same Black Friday €523 price or lower that I was about to Pay Amazon.de last night if worst comes to worse and a 6900x is not worth waiting for me or too expensive. Like I said to someone else here. Even if I got a 5900x right now, its unlikely I'll have the time to build my PC till after Christmas anyway so I literally lose nothing by waiting till first week of January for the CES2022 6900x announcment.
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