Upgrading from 1700X to 5800X on B450 MSI Tomahawk (non-MAX)

1 : Anonymous2021/03/14 07:07 ID: m4qa0t

Hi all,

I am upgrading my processor from 1700X to 5800X on a B450 MSI Tomahawk motherboard and created this post mainly for myself to edit as I go along and also perhaps to share some information for those with similar hardware. B450/5000 -compatibitily is at this point a new feature and I found little information/confirmation on compatibility and other issues as of march 2021.

First, my original system specs:

Motherboard: B450 Tomahawk (MS-7C02), BIOS 7C02v1H3 (see below)

Memory: 4x G.Skill Ripjaws V 8GB (F4-3200C16-8GVKB) (Two Samsung B/C die and two Hynix C-die as reported by Thaiphoon163) at 3200CL18.

Processor: Ryzen 1700X with stock clocks, virtualization on. Thermalright ARO-M140 for cooling

PSU: Corsair RM650. GPU: MSI Gaming X 5700 (modified ROM, clocks 1900/1750, 1060mV) Storage: Intel 660p m.2 ssd, 2x samsung 860 SSD (1TB and 2TB), Seagate 2TB HDD. Operating system: Windows10 on the m.2. Soundcard + a whole bunch of USB devices, multiple keyboards and mice, game controllers, guitar amplifiers etc.

The memory would not run stable at higher speeds or lower latencies. Virtualization is on for WSL2.

CPU-Z benchmark (version 17.01.64) reported 370 points for single-thread and 4330 points for multi-thread benchmarks (400/4340 with virtualization off)

Unigine Superposition benchmark 1080p Medium reports around 15200 points and is at some stages clearly CPU-limited (GPU utilization significantly less than 100%)

The system was tuned for stability in favour of performance.

To begin, installing the latest BIOS. The MSI website was down for most part of the day, but when it was operational again I downloaded the latest AGESA BIOS 7C02v1H3.ROM with support for 5000-series, copied it to a USB stick (FAT32) and renamed it to MSI.ROM. Power off, insert USB to BIOS FLASHBACK+ port in the back, press the update button. This went smoothly and was compatible with the 1700X.

The hardware installation is what a hardware installation is, luckily there are many excellent videos and other information available.

[Insert lots of coffee and swearing here]

After installation the system booted (rather) normally, Windows spent some time installing new hardware, and after that was running without hiccups. I set the memory timings to XMP first option 3200CL16 and virtualization on from BIOS and was good to go.

CPU-Z reports around 670+ for single thread and 6820+ for multi, so the improvement was rather substantial. Superposition score was a few points shy of 16000. Flight Simulator runs at 60fps most of the time at 1080p.

The processor was running rather hot (80+C) at times for my taste, so I changed PBO from BIOS to 95W TDP. Benchmarks or game performance did not change noticeably as a result.

Running power tests with OCCT resulted in the processor flatlining at around 80C and motherboard VRM around 76C. Clocks around 4.8 GHz with all cores.

All in all, upgrading an old Ryzen B450 system with a ZEN3 processor is definitely worthwhile and hassle-free, and I don't think there is an immediate need to switch to faster memory/new motherboard.

TL;DR: Latest MSI B450 Tomahawk BIOS 7C02v1H3 supports both first-gen Zen and Zen3 processors. MSI Tomahawk B450 can handle 5800X just fine.

2 : Anonymous2021/03/14 07:34 ID: gqvp8tq

I have a B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC, so thanks for doing this!

3 : Anonymous2021/03/14 08:46 ID: gqvtkb1

i was also thinking of buying 1st get ryzen and 400 series motherboard, so i could uppgrade to zen3 in couple of years (all used)...

curently on 8320e

ID: gqvu4k6

Thats the right way to do it!

ID: gqvv9y5

i have a b350 msi pc mate and 1700 and i will upgrade when ddr5 is on the market considering if it will scale well with memory speed and i have a 4k monitor so my main focus is a gpu upgrade for now

ID: gqvvpxm

I was on 1700x, but it doesn't really cut it for high refresh gaming anymore, so I upgraded to 5600x. I get 2-3 times the frames in league of legends and valorant. In apex I saw a ~20-50fps boost. Overall depending on games and resolution, its worth it, but if you are on 4k, I can see 1700 being enought.

ID: gqwaqz2

I'm on a x370 board and went from a 1700x to a 3700x. Let me just say, don't hesitate to upgrade to a 3000 series Ryzen if you want to squeeze some more years out of your 1st gen motherboard. The performance improvement was very big for me. Plus, memory clocks have been rock-stable for me after upgrading due to the much improved memory controller.

ID: gqwj7s6

when ddr5 and the new ssd goes on sale it will require completely new mobos that will probably cost 3x the normal price, just saying

ID: gqw2mm7

That's the way to go, look for something like asrock b450 series, they released zen3 support bios a few months ago and even new Mainboards cost around 80 bucks. Used way cheaper.

ID: gqw5e7q

i was thinking more like 470 since it has oc capabilities and i dont think 450 has... i might be wrong

ID: gqwydgn

I had the 8320e pinned at 4.4ghz.

And bought a used system with a r3 1200, for cheap. Slowly upgraded to a r5 1600, and the performance difference from the 8320e is very noticeable with the same GPU (r9 290)

I upgraded The 1600 to 2700x and even that jump is big also.

ID: gqxlu3j

do you ooverclock ryzen too?

ID: gqxb3tq

In couple of years bruh seriously?

ID: gqxm064

well i dont need a supercomputer to play basic games and use solidworks

4 : Anonymous2021/03/14 09:17 ID: gqvvf4y

80 degrees is perfectly normal/fine for a 5800x

5 : Anonymous2021/03/14 09:21 ID: gqvvm2m

Thank you for your work and time!

I just bought a cheap 1600AF and MSI B450 Tomahawk Max last week. Hoping it'll boot 😀

6 : Anonymous2021/03/14 10:27 ID: gqvzbjr

Yeah also running a 5900x on a b450 and it's been Amazing. Zero problems

7 : Anonymous2021/03/14 09:30 ID: gqvw5jc

I have a B450 Tomahawk non Max and running the beta, though not the latest iteration of the beta.

I started on a 2700x, then 3800x and now 5800x.

I am using 3600mhz CL15 RAM, with the CPU PBO enabled and -20 offset.

Cpu-z single core: 661 Cpu-z multi core: 6911 Source:

Cores hit 4.85ghz all core with Aida64 stress test

ID: gqwyvgh

I've been debating a similar upgrade from my 3700x. Is the performance gain visible?

ID: gqx54bc

I only really play old games like BF4... So for me, no... Except for benchmarks.

I bought it as there was a covid lockdown and I was bored.

8 : Anonymous2021/03/14 09:34 ID: gqvwe4o

My gripe with updating non-Max b450 tomahawk was having to set fan curves using Dragon Center for zen2 support.

Did they change that with the zen3 bios?

Fans will have 3 presets, non adjustable for rpm and temp pts.

ID: gqvwj2l

I have a non max and the updated BIOS has always been able to set fan curves (for 2700x, 3800x and 5800x). It's set using manually inputted numbers though, not a GUI driven curve.

You can set it with PWM or DC and set up to 5 curve points. You can also set the ramp up and ramp down time.

ID: gqvwp6o

Was this the 1st zen2 supported bios? My rpm and temp pts were greyed out. I don't own that setup anymore. I'm not poking at it, I'm asking for further data if I end up with another non-Max cheapie build as a 2nd PC.

9 : Anonymous2021/03/14 11:14 ID: gqw1zxg

I've switched from 2600 to 5800x also and have a x570 aorus elite with 2x 240mm radiator setup here.

I suggest you use use stock settings with curve optimizer ON, with -15, as it will apply less voltage. You can afterwards enable the overboost option from +200mhz. It will be a bit cooler AND reach 5.025ghz on all cores in my machine.

Nevertheless, my R20 best multicore score (~6150) was obtained with -20 and 0mhz overboost, since boosting to 5.025ghz(+200mhz) with -20 was to much of a voltage cut for me.

Still needs tweaking, because this is straight out of the box and applied to all cores. I'm sure tweaking the cores individually will provide higher clock speed and better thermals.

ID: gqwcw4s

I've got -15 on curve optimiser and its stable and everything is good. But whenever I increase the overboost option to +150 It won't boot to windows. Even when I set it as low as +50 I get into windows and within 10min I get BSOD.

Any idea whats happening? (5800x B550M Mortar)

ID: gqwen4n

Yes, basically your cpu is not receiving enough voltage to be able to boost stable to 4900mhz (4850+50) with the voltage range from curve optimizer set to -15. It depends from silicon lottery and cooling also.

Mine is doing nicelly at -15 with +200 (boosting to 5.025ghz, not 5.050 for some reason) but at -20, I can't add the +200, it's too much of a boost, it will also crash.

Nevertheless it performs great either way.

I have 2x 240mm (slim+thick) radiators on my case, so I'm probably benefitting from the extra cooling.

ID: gqw3x88

Good tips, thank you.

I'm currently tuning the curve optimizer value. I did not find an "overboost" option in my BIOS, perhaps just adjusting the base frequency could work...?

Also BTW I'm unable to run Ryzen Master because it requires virtualization to be off, so testing different configurations takes a while.

ID: gqw6cs3

Sorry, it's called "max cpu boost clock override" on my board.

10 : Anonymous2021/03/14 11:54 ID: gqw4fyx

I got 5800X and ASUS TUF B450 Plus last week. Had to undervolt the CPU. In normal conditions, CPU stays under 45 degress Celsius. Extremely happy with this as those two extra cores (over 5600 that I initially though of buying) are helping me in creating more containers/VMs.

11 : Anonymous2021/03/14 13:54 ID: gqwbd0k

I have a b450 gaming plus and my journey hasn't been as smooth as yours. Upon flashing the new bios, my windows install became corrupt and I had to reinstall, not too big of a deal. The biggest hassle has been the heat though and not the sustained heat. Most games will stay around 60 to low 70s with it only getting higher if I'm recording as well. Rendering videos does get pretty toasty and gets up to about 88c on an hour long render. Other than that my biggest issue has honestly been playing rocket league weirdly enough. Temps spike pretty high when opening most games but it's usually no higher than 80c. Whereas with rocket league the cpu will shoot up to 90 briefly when i open the game and whenever I get into the match. Mind you this is with settings the voltage go 1.287, running it anything else and the system shuts off in rocket league.

ID: gqx1afm

I also experienced similar temperature peaks with default settings.

Setting PBO2 preset "ECO 95W" from the bios helped. Currently testing the manual settings, adjusting negative voltage offset (0-30) and frequency offset ("max cpu boost clock override ") from the same menu.

There is a thread here

/comments/khtx1o/guide_zen_3_overclocking_using_curve_optimizer/" class="reddit-press-link" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.reddit.com//comments/khtx1o/guide_zen_3_overclocking_using_curve_optimizer/
about PBO2

ID: gqx89ya

Will try that. Just really strange that it only spikes to 90 or a little over in rocket league of all things.

12 : Anonymous2021/03/14 14:28 ID: gqwebhe

I'm currently running a Ryzen 2700 on the b450 Tomahawk non-max, with 64GB of RAM. I'm a c++ developer and this is my work from home machine, working 8-10 hours a day. I run Ubuntu and use KVM to run about five different Linux and Windows VMs alternately.

A 5800x or 5900x is on my buy list for this spring so I appreciate the compatibility verification.

My Windows machine has a Gigabyte b450 DS3H with a 1300x that will probably receive the 2700 when I do get around to doing the upgrade.

13 : Anonymous2021/03/14 16:20 ID: gqwq508

I think the 5800x is just a hot cpu, but I don't see it an issue. I did some personal tests with both an AIO and a high-end air-cooler:

-5800x gets to 90 C with a 360 Arctic Freezer or a Dark Rock Pro4.

-3900x reaches 74-76 C with the 360 AIO, and 85-88 with the Dark Rock Pro4.

Both CPU's have PBO on, no undervolt and a PPT of 144W. Tests were done using avx2 mining algos so quite high power case.

I'm very impressed with the 5800x performance so far I did not expect it to get so close to the 3900x in multithread.

14 : Anonymous2021/03/14 20:40 ID: gqxv5hn

b450 is basically the only board that supports the whole Zen Stack.

best board for flexibility, jsut no PCIE4 support but it's definitely not an issue for 99% users at this point.

15 : Anonymous2021/03/14 23:52 ID: gqykokq

Anyone know if the b450 Tomahawk would handle a 5900x? I saw it handles a stock 3900x but have seen little data for the 5900x on this board.


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