Ryzen Mobile CPU’s – 4600H, 4800H and 4900H – Temp spikes beyond rated threshold, normal?!

1 : Anonymous2021/03/23 20:16 ID: mbnqd2
Ryzen Mobile CPU's - 4600H, 4800H and 4900H - Temp spikes beyond rated threshold, normal?!
2 : Anonymous2021/03/23 21:18 ID: grz5fx3

Pour some water on it and see if it boils off, if it does it really is over 100 degrees C

(Please don't actually do this you can't rely on anyone having common sense anymore)

ID: grz6qua

LoL! Yeah, this was under an extreme stress test condition for a laptop. It's a little better now with upgraded thermal pads.

3 : Anonymous2021/03/23 22:07 ID: grzc2ak

Tctl/tdie is has an offset applied to drive the fans at an appropriate speed with the same default fan curve regardless of the CPU model used. So that temperature isn't actually your CPU temp, it's just the temp that the system reported to force the fans to run at the speed it wanted them to.

It's a temperature control signal (tctl) derived from the cpu die temp (tdie). You can safely disregard what it says.

The CPU Core temperature is the hottest temp of the cores themselves, the SoC is the memory controlle

/PCIe, and APU GFX is the GPU cores hottest temp.

Also the shutdown temp is 120C (Renoir may be 125C, not 100% sure off hand), so if it ever hits that, it will shut itself down anyway to protect from damage. It won't let itself get damaged from heat, so you have nothing to worry about.

Also keep in mind those readings are just a snapshot taken from 1/1000 of one second, so that may have just been a brief spike while the CPU cores hit 100C for only a few milliseconds before it scaled it back. The CPU voltage and frequency is adjusted up to 1000x per second, so it may briefly allow swings outside normal parameters. Again, it will fully manage its own temperature regulation, so there is no worry here.

ID: grzd192

Thanks! I was just checking, because I was slightly concerned.

After upgrading my thermal pads and thermal paste, I started noticing higher clocks for longer periods of time, as well as voltage running higher.

Laptop has Smart Shift, so given 3 VRM's are shared, it's a trade off on which device pulls voltage. After the thermal solution upgrade, I'm seeing both devices being consuming more power. That's here nor there, I was just concerned about seeing these micro temp spikes.

ID: grzecl3

Yeah the micro spikes will happen, as will heat soak, eventually (and you were torturing it), so seeing temps as high as 115C reported for tctl/tdie wouldn't be unexpected, but I'd definitely prefer to see it below that. But it wasn't running out of bounds or acting outside the normal thermal parameters of the chip, so you're safe there, even if you end up in such a torturous situation in the future in practice.

Sounds like your thermal upgrade (factory applied isn't always the best) is making a difference though if you're seeing lower temps and longer sustained clocks at higher voltages. But that just proves that the thermal mechanism is working as designed and scaling based on the cooling available, using every bit it can within limits.

I can't speak to the VRM power sharing/smart shift but I'm sure you can see pretty clearly where the power is going.

Oh, and just one more point, it didn't even reach the PROCHOT flag point, which is where it starts to hard throttle, which is the step before it would shut down the system. Not 100% sure the Thermal Throttling flag reporting works on Renoir, but PROCHOT does. And the fact that it didn't even trip that means the CPU wasn't even concerned with temp yet. But still, your thermal upgrade just increased the boost clocks by reducing temps, which is never a bad thing.

You're good, now is the time to start installing all your stuff and just get to enjoying it!

4 : Anonymous2021/03/23 20:48 ID: grz18da

I would take such readings with a grain of salt. These programs are often off.

5 : Anonymous2021/03/23 23:31 ID: grzmhvy

my 4600H has never gone above 90C. That being said I do own a Lenovo Legion, which has among the best cooling for a 4600H laptop

ID: grzmx4q

Yeah, just gathering a consensus. Not worried about laptop manufacturer, more of the chip in question.

ID: grzpda4

Concensus isn't that helpful as laptop thermals vary widely due to the cooling solution used. It would be significantly more helpful for you to have provided the laptop and conditions under which you observed this, initially in the OP.

6 : Anonymous2021/03/23 20:18 ID: gryx4h8

Okay, so before I say anything, I recorded this behavior before changing anything, BIOS, or otherwise. The image above was during a IBTv2 stress test before upgrading thermal paste and pads on the laptop. The attached image is a bit of a 'worst case scenario' if I was doing long rendering sessions and hammering the CPU, or under more extreme gaming scenarios.

Using HWiNFO64 I would record under gaming or other heavy loads, temp spikes up to 106-110 before it appeared to cut voltage to the CPU. Am I the only one seeing this behavior? The spike happens once, voltage is cut, and it stays around 5 degrees from the 105*C rated threshold thereafter.

Just seeing if anyone else has paid attention and or recorded this behavior before. I've seen this happen with my laptops boost/performance mood both enabled and disabled, also with and without a laptop cooling pad.

Is this behavior damaging to the silicon and/or should I be concerned?

ID: grz6jl9

Maximum junction temp for Renoir parts is a sky high 115C, but it should throttle before then, as you noted.

The only time I've seen 105C+ (108C junction, 102C core) on my 4700U is when I alt-tab out of a game and forget about it for a bit. Laptop goes into Modern Standby which turns fans off with 100% GPU load in background. Not very smart, IMO.

Seems like your laptop needs larger heat pipes and heatsinks near fans for the cTDP (65W, looks like) it's running or jet speed fan mode. Though I did note that the stock TIM degraded very rapidly with Renoir's high temps (in my HP Envy x360 15/4700U). I used IC Diamond, which tends to be very stable at high temps. No issues since.

Barring all other options (if running 45W cTDP doesn't suit you), liquid metal TIM and higher fan speeds (any built-in control app from Dell?) to dissipate transferred heat is another option. Makes sense that AMD went to liquid metal for top 5000H models.

7 : Anonymous2021/03/23 20:21 ID: gryxjax

What laptop model?

ID: gryy4nv

Dell G5 SE, it's a beast for such a small laptop.

I already redid the thermal paste and pads, I also use a cooling pad with it, and I used MPT to tweak the RX 5600M to better use it's allotted power per VRM config.

Zero issues with the laptop, but just wondering about those small spikes under heavy load, if I'm the only one seeing this behavior or if anyone with these mobile chips are seeing it.

8 : Anonymous2021/03/23 20:32 ID: gryz20z

Is that HW Monitor?

ID: grz41q4



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