[HUB] AMD vs. Intel, Who Really Offers The Most Value?

1 : Anonymous2021/06/20 11:08 ID: o43brs
[HUB] AMD vs. Intel, Who Really Offers The Most Value?
2 : Anonymous2021/06/20 12:15 ID: h2f67oh

And there's still some solid A520 boards that are even cheaper than the B550 be used.

It makes it possible for one to consider a 5600X + A520 combo over a similarly priced Intel setup.

ID: h2f6rf5

Or a 2nd hand b450

ID: h2flp5q

Or even a x470

ID: h2fuhq8

I had a b450m mortar max for a while (now replaced by a b550 edge), cost just €60 second hand and in theory could handle any chip especially with a downdraft cooler like a L12S or C14s for better VRM temps.

ID: h2h7ez0

They've been flogging B450 Tomahawk MAX for $95 in Australia (about $65 USD). You can grab a decent mobo on the AMD side for so cheap right now that the more expensive Zen 3 is somewhat offset.

3 : Anonymous2021/06/20 12:37 ID: h2f7zqz

Even the Core i5-11400F isn't immune and potentially loses 26% of performance, so if you think you want to cheap out on the motherboard, you might want to think again.

ID: h2fz2xb

Only if you're too lazy to unlock the power limits yourself. The only reason the 11400f performs worse is because cheaper mobos default lock the power to 65W.

The only mobo that would temperature throttle here is the Asus one and this is after 1 hour of Blender. They're even testing in a bad airflow scenario. No clue why they do this but whatever.

You can pair a 11400f just fine with a cheap B560 mobo and not lose any performance.

ID: h2g1j13

No clue why they do this but whatever.

Because that's when it's relevant?

ID: h2g4oy9

Wrong. Watch the damn video before spamming the comments with inaccurate statements.

Even the 11400F can thermal throttle the VRM if you unlock the power limits on some of the cheap B560, that is the whole point of the discussion.

4 : Anonymous2021/06/20 12:11 ID: h2f5xnh

Core i7-11700 with a lower quality B560 motherboard potentially lose 35% of the performance

Core i5-11400F with a lower quality B560 motherboard potentially loses 26% of the performance

ID: h2g1yfc

The "good" ones are running the CPU far above spec, causing a massive load of more heat generated and more power used. Basically an overclock.

See also: Gamers Nexus video on the topic.

You CAN achieve the same performance with any board. Technically the underperforming ones are the better ones as they respect the spec and don't cause an Intel branded fusion reaction inside your case.

ID: h2g3phk

this is incorrect for the b560 boards with most of the 11th gen lineup. if you unlock the power limits on lower end b560 you are likely to hit VRM thermal throttling before maxing out, even without overclocking, as stated and proven in the OP video you did not watch.

ID: h2ftsla

Correct me if I'm wrong , isnt it only if you using default bios ? The "good" motherboard actually unlocked tdp for these chip so you just need to manual unlock tdp on the "bad" board to get these cinebench numbers . Granted VRMs temp gonna be worse.

ID: h2fwbtu

The TDP is locked down for a good reason.

Intel processors have runaway power consumption and the mobo manufacturers don't want people to burn up the VRMs.

For example, the Core i5-11600K uses 31% more power than the Ryzen 9 5950X does.

ID: h2fgngz

This only really seems to affect Cinebench and Blender, which you're conveniently not mentioning. And hardly anybody actually uses Cinebench, so I'd say Blender is the only real meaningful application being hit here.

EDIT: Y'all have ensured this community has no credibility whatsoever. Truly embarrassment horseshit trying to defend this clearly misleading claim. Nobody here cares about the truth.

ID: h2fhafd

This only really seems to affect Cinebench and Blender, which you're conveniently not mentioning. And hardly anybody actually uses Cinebench, so I'd say Blender is the only real meaningful application being hit here.

This is false.

Anything that is taxing on the processor is affected.

ID: h2ftpom

You have a point but cooking/compiling in unreal engine hammers the cpu even more and don't forget the AVX loads which can also get affected by that motherboard. Point is we should not allow this kind product to exist it is bad for consumers in the long run

5 : Anonymous2021/06/20 14:03 ID: h2fgsue

Good B560 mobo prices are ridiculous they're approaching X570s ffs

ID: h2fgvmj

Meanwhile good B550s are often $30-50 or even $70 cheaper

What you save on the CPU using Intel you pay for in mobo and/or cooling requirement

ID: h2fqlol

Gah u got the strix b550-xe which is on the higher end of b550s but a kind of sad I didn't go x570

ID: h2gm878

Yep. Considered how intertwined they are, it's better to compare CPU + Motherboard prices.

6 : Anonymous2021/06/20 12:38 ID: h2f84ji

there's just no point buying intel anymore even if they cut prices significantly

that should have been done 5 years ago by intel,because if they cut prices on 7th and 8th gen platform AMD practically had no way to answer because their cpus were behind

now intel can't get DIY to budge because AMD got to play their ace in a sleeve

and yes cheaping out on intel is not worth it(this all proves it) because you lose performance while going pricier is not worth cause upgradeability

ID: h2f8f39

Intel needs a 50 dollar rebate on every single motherboard to make it worthwhile and an extra 20 off on coolers

ID: h2fpavt

...but what if someone just need a home/office PC and a sub-par motherboard and sub-par (stock) cooler is good enough for him/her?

ID: h2ff0c6

With Intel what u save on better CPU you have to put into much more expensive motherboard, and for budget builds it's often not worth it

ID: h2fh8vw

You certainly dont have to, unless Blender is your primary focus.

But hey, why watch the video to learn the nuanced details when I could just make radical, misleading claims instead?

EDIT: This sub is genuinely embarrassing. Nobody can respond with a rebuttal, it's just mass downvotes. smh

ID: h2ffz3k

When you realise it’s been 5 years already, it like you hit a wall.

ID: h2fntxv

there's just no point buying intel anymore even if they cut prices significantly

I have to disagree with that.

What if someone just need a cheap home or office PC?

Yes, the motherboard sucks and so does the cooler, but that is still plenty of performance for a typical home/office PC.

ID: h2ft5pg

These also go I to small crapped cases with little airflow. So no intel is not a good buy...

ID: h2g5zwk

Not that the point isn’t valid, but wouldn’t one in this circumstance just pick up whatever the cheapest prebuilt is?

ID: h2fpy52

What a load of crock. This sub is hilarious.

Like 90% of you don't use or even run blender. Most of you are gamers. You aren't losing shit while gaming when pairing an 11400f with a b560 board. It's the best value pick hands down and if you need to run blender for a living you're not buying a cheap motherboard or a cheap Intel cpu. You're getting a 5950x or better with all the bells and whistles.

If you're only gaming, Intel right now is the best bang for buck. Price/perf is what was touted heavily 2 years ago on this sub, now it's suddenly not good enough. Fucking hypocrites.

ID: h2fuc6c

While I agree to some extent (and I do think there is definitely some bias against intel atm), I think it is totally reasonable to be concerned about the budget b560 boards down the road. Especially because budget buyers also tend to hold on to their stuff for longer than high end buyers. The power limiting could be a significant problem in the future as games get more demanding; and we are discussing this just as we are about to cross the threshold into next gen games. There are already situations in which the superior 8 core (11700) CPU loses performance on demanding games as we see in the video. A 6 core is less capable than that and games are only going to get more demanding. I think it is worth considering.

ID: h2fzv7r

And is it even worth using these mainstream CPUs for Blender rendering, when GPUs are so much faster at it.

ID: h2f9od0

of course theres a point for intel, if we're talking about gaming. They werent competitive in profesional work since the first ryzens, theres little point in tests like these.

For gaming its actually cheaper now to go intel for the same performance. AMD havent actually beaten intel in gaming, they merely matched them. So intel is still as relevant as ever for that type of workload

ID: h2faokw

here's the thing(and i am not biased):

-intel has issues with motherboards determining performance and you generally need a K spec to get most out of it

-AMD doesn't,because proper backwards/fowards compatibility and you can OC properly because everything is unlocked

-gaming side AMD sucked at start but that is because pepole had no idea how tech worked but as soon as pepole figured out it is scheduler being trash not CPU performance being shit it was actually good

-now zen 2/zen 3 cpus really reel it in because power efficiancy is a real thing and generally in standard use cases AMD is always gonna be a king

seriously whoever sees intel as a good option in 2021 forgets 14nm is maxed out and you are forced to OC to keep it running

ID: h2felyn

It is worse to go with Intel for gaming and productivity tasks.

ANY board below a Z490/590 WILL throttle the CPU performance by up to 50!%.

Take a B450, throw the 5950X on it, update BIOS and it works. No throttling.

Also, cooler needed, for the i7/9 you need AIOs to cool when it OCs.

Ryzen? Throw an Noctua or Be Quiet on it and ya good to go.

7 : Anonymous2021/06/20 12:45 ID: h2f8phj

Sorry for some offtopic but how they came up with HUB abbreviation? It is Hardware Unboxed so you rather say HU or HWUB from HardWare UnBoxed. This thing is so insanely mad i cannot stop noticing this every freaking time.

ID: h2fb6cy

We do it for two reasons.
A: HUB sounds better, and you can say it.
B: We get a kick out of triggering people who make a big deal over trivial things (we need to get out more).

ID: h2fmdyp

wait so it wasnt harbour on box ? damn

8 : Anonymous2021/06/20 11:09 ID: h2f1gb9
Timestamps: 05:32 - Test System 06:25 - Cinebench R23 07:44 - 7-Zip File Manager 08:37 - Blender Open Data 09:18 - Adobe Photoshop 2020 09:56 - Adobe After Effects 2020 10:29 - DaVinci Resolve Studio 16 10:52 - Adobe Premiere Pro 2020 11:12 - F1 2020 [DX12] 11:34 - Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege [Vulkan] 11:57 - Horizon Zero Dawn 12:13 - Cyberpunk 2077 [DX12] 12:23 - Watch Dogs: Legion 12:31 - Death Stranding 12:39 - Shadow of the Tomb Raider 13:11 - Hitman 2 13:37 - Power, Blender 14:32 - Power, Shadow of the Tomb Raider 15:13 - Power, Hitman 2 15:44 - Motherboard VRM Temps 17:15 - Final Thoughts
9 : Anonymous2021/06/20 17:15 ID: h2g3942

Looking past power draw pick your poison: AMD less affordable CPU Intel less affordable decent motherboard

The value proposition of Intel is made worse when you factor into power draw.

10 : Anonymous2021/06/20 12:54 ID: h2f9g54

I always use H570 boards ... they are usually comparable in price.. how are they performing ?

ID: h2fq6j0

They don't support RAM overclocking so you're losing a good deal of performance there. Assuming the VRM's can handle the cpu which is to be doubted on <$150 boards.

Intel cpu's really just draw a metric fuckton of power so of course you're running into issues on lower end boards.

ID: h2g699h

I literally just overclocked the memory on an a ASRock h570 Pro 4 build yesterday.

"Intel cpu's really just draw a metric fuckton of power so of course you're running into issues on lower end boards."

Lol I remember when people said the same about AMD, the I7's are not really that bad as far as power draw compared to AMD if you actually watch the video.

ID: h2frt0v

why are there so many blatantly incorrect comments about intel on this thread? h570 does support ram oc

11 : Anonymous2021/06/20 15:40 ID: h2frtvr

just for gaming scenerio currenly i5 11400 + b560 budget mobo looks like savings option as its not affected that much in fps most games shows difference of 5 to 7 fps for 11700 even if we take same for 11400 which in real world is not that much difference especially in budget builds. 5600x is like almost 40 percent higher priced

ID: h2g8n9t

10400 is the better option if you're going to pair it with a budget B560 board anyway. At default TDP it performs the same as 11400 for gaming, cheaper, and you still get RAM OC.

12 : Anonymous2021/06/20 14:24 ID: h2fj4ci

Value and performance are irrelevant when the market is controlled by scalpers.

ID: h2fpxln

Nobody is scaling cpu's or motherboards though.

14 : Anonymous2021/06/20 13:50 ID: h2ffe70

Intel offers about twice as much performance per euro as amd right now

15 : Anonymous2021/06/20 14:09 ID: h2fhdru

[citation needed]

16 : Anonymous2021/06/20 14:02 ID: h2fgmdy

No it doesn't? Nobody would buy AMD if that actually were the case.

17 : Anonymous2021/06/20 14:24 ID: h2fj17h

are you factoring for the added cost of a motherboard that will deliver sufficient power?

18 : Anonymous2021/06/20 19:03 ID: h2ggcb9

Back of the napkin math on your claim. lets compare the 11600k and 5600x as they are the most directly comparable current generation parts likely to be of interest to someone wanting value for the money. performance is +-10% for either cpu depending on your testing methodology. For the purpose of being generous to your claim, let us generously assume performance is 10% higher for the 11600k than the 5600x on average for all applications we will run on our machine (I do not actually believe this is true for most workloads) So to have at least 200% value, the 11600k must be 55% the cost of the 5600x or less. Checking mindfactory.de, 5600x is currently retaling for 239 euro. based on your claim i expect the 11600k to cost at most .55*239=131.45 euro. And yet also on mindfactory.de it is listed for 238 euro. If you would like to suggest a different source for EU prices, or why any of my calculations or assumptions are off by 90% against intel, feel free to reply.

Tldr: basic math and a price check to make sure EU prices are comparable to US says liar liar pants on fire.

19 : Anonymous2021/06/20 20:23 ID: h2gq9io

11400f costs half as much as the 5600x and is up to 10 percent faster depending on the game

5600x is still 295 euros in the EU, mindfactory doesn't export

20 : Anonymous2021/06/20 21:04 ID: h2gv1q3

Here's a $110 Asus B560M-A running an i9 10900 with no power limits. 90C after 15min of Realbench without throttling. Add a little bit of airflow and that's all. If this board can handle a 10900, it can easily handle an i5 11400.
Intel still offers the best value, you simply have to pick the right motherboard.


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