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The creators of the PlayStation 5 hit "Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart" jettisoned old ideas about game difficulty
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Rift apart was far too easy, I think I died twice and got 100% on my first playthru, now there’s no real reason to play again or to level up the guns
ID: h5j92a4ID: h5jx0rcI agree. I’m not of the opinion that every game needs to be super challenging, but this is the first R&C game that I haven’t played through multiple times on Challenge Mode because it just didn’t feel like there was any reason to.
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I generally welcome designing so that everyone can enjoy a game so long as it cuts both ways and more experienced players don't have their experience ruined and so as a fan of Ratchet and Clank since the very first game, I think they went way too far on Rift Apart in terms of making it easy and linear.
It's a good game overall except in terms of non-combat difficulty in particular, I'll say that first; however my problem is that the whole game feels like it was designed so that any challenging grindrail sections or platforming sections for example simply don't exist. The only part that felt even vaguely like the older games in my opinion was on the Fixer's planet and there's a grindrail section with mine carts on it and even that felt too simple. I noticed this very clearly with the gold bolts too; previously some were pretty challenging to collect but here you practically fell over most of them with no effort.
I also mention linearity and by that I mean the game felt clearly designed to guide you on a path by holding your hand for most of it and there's no Metroidvania aspect of getting a gadget then being able to go back to a previous planet to use it. I know R&C have never been the most free games for exploration but there have always been side areas with side-quests or smaller optional areas to explore. In Rift Apart though, I recall in the first proper level the little diversion through the factory for a spybot and there is a large open world (the archive one) but there isn't much to do except some collectibles but aside from those two nothing jumps out of my memory as not being linear corridors.
A good example too is that on older games I remember jumping back and forth between planets to open a new area or reach a formerly unreachable bolt but on Rift Apart you basically almost never have to go back to a previous planet with a new gadget that might open a door you couldn't previously open for example because you're just pulled forward the whole time with no reason to go back except when it might be for a linear main story mission.
I'll repeat my previous point as a summary, it is a good game but maybe it's been dumbed down a bit too much in the platforming, puzzle and exploration aspects of the game and so feels a bit disappointing to me as a long-term fan of the series.
ID: h5jckpipreviously some were pretty challenging to collect but here you practically fell over most of them with no effort.
This was something that really surprised me. Some gold bolts required some actual effort to achieve, but there were some where you could just... walk over and pick it up
ID: h5iyu10I think you hit the nail on the head. It was a great game overall, but there was no challenging platforming. Particularly for extras or side quests which are great for making a game appeal both to casual and more serious players.
ID: h5jgwufThe pocket dimensions could have been an awesome opportunity to throw some challenging, optional platforming segments to really spice things up. Instead, they're all too simple and over way too quickly, there are some cool ideas in there though.
ID: h5j6yswThere's a relevant section at the end of the article to what we're discussing,
"We no longer think about, like, 'What will make the most elite players feel good about themselves?' And more like, 'What will enable everybody to have the experience they want to have?' Because that's sort of the most important thing to us."
I think there's a massive flaw in their thought there. To me challenge has never been about making me feel good about myself, to me having some challenge is about engagement and keeping me interested in the game.
Even more than that, as a slightly older kid a couple of examples of games I played were Jak II and King's Field IV on PS2; now if you don't know, sections of these games will absolutely kick your arse but I'm thankful that they did because they trained me to get better at games and develop my skill level from a younger age so that now I feel that I can fully appreciate and enjoy games because even with a challenge they aren't overwhelming to me and end up as stressful. What I wonder though from this is that as the push for accessibility in games grows ever stronger, what if we get to a point where people don't get their arse kicked when they first start so the quality of games decrease in future to match an overall lower skill level.
Also if the "most important thing" is what your players want as their experience then where's my choice to have something than is engaging to me and not an absolute cakewalk? Why not add in harder elements of platforming but allow people to use the 'skip puzzle' option on them rather than completely cutting them out and making what is there super simple?
ID: h5j3lktI played the game on the hardest difficulty and it still was way too easy. Random shots got me down a few times but thats it. I felt like playing a game designed for 9 year olds.
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This would be cool if Rift apart was actually difficult on hard mode though, lol
I'm not usually the type of gamer that flexes about difficulty, Halo legendary kicks my ass, Rift Apart's hard mode is pretty potato, ESPECIALLY late game when you have some decent weapons.
"We want players to have options" apparently not
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This has been solved a decade ago by tying trophies to difficulty. Add an easy mode for people that couldn't care less about challenge, and a normal/hard mode for those that don't want the game to just play itself. Reward the 2nd group of people with trophies.
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Great thinking, but maybe some more execution is needed.
I think of a game like Super Mario Odyssey - easy to move from level to level for newbies, but to master and fully explore the game takes time, game knowledge and a good level of skill.
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Every half wit games journalist wants to write an article about difficulty now to cash in on clicks. Trying to use everything from dark souls to ratchet & clank to justify their flawed reasoning. Can't wait until they start complaining about nioh/ nioh 2 and Sekiro lack of difficulty options again.
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Ratchet and Clank just isn't the type of game I play for a "challenge"... I prefer the wacky clusterfuck.
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There’s something to be said about accessibility. I’m on board with developers offering multitudes of control options. But when you want to alter the underlying design philosophy, you’re basically saying, “This artistic vision should cater to me and as many people as possible.”
Now you could go down the rabbit hole of what is art. Are multiple difficulty options a part of accessibility? There’s no right or wrong answer. I’m not entirely sure.
With the case of Souls (not Soulslike like Fallen Order), the very idea of difficulty is baked into the design of the game. Take that out and while you’re still left with a good game, you lose a critical facet of the experience. If Miyazaki wants to keep it difficult, that’s well within his right. Same with directors who want their games to be so easy, a child could beat them. It might hurt overall sales, but that was the artist’s intent.
Gaming is a unique medium in that there’s an element of player control. If you were to translate the idea to say film, I suppose the closest analogy would be dumbing down the dialogue and themes so everyone could understand. Literature, toning down the language so it’s easier to digest. (In actuality, it’s probably closer to audio books vs paperbacks.) It’s an apples to oranges comparison.
It’s okay to push towards accessibility in all games. I think it’s an overall positive cause. But if a director or studio has an issue with say changing the difficulty, that’s okay too! You don’t have to agree every decision. I think the lack of quick saves in Returnal is dumb as hell. But I wouldn’t change the overall difficulty.
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The goal of every game should be fun. Whatever maximizes fun is good for a game and whatever minimizes fun is bad for it. There’s no moral obligation for games to be difficult, and players have no duty to developers to be good at playing their games. This is why Animal Crossing has sold more copies than an Souls-type game ever will.
ID: h5j06u4Souls games and Animal Crossing are both fun and if they made Animal Crossing harder it'd probably be less fun, and if they made Dark Souls easier it'd be less fun.
Games are different!
ID: h5j2m0sDid you deadass compare Dark Souls to Animal Crossing? Souls is for a very specific demographic which has its own place. Not everything needs to be for everyone. That’s when pieces of art start lose their Individuality.
ID: h5iqgvyEh, the reason why Animal Crossing sells more than a Souls-type game is because Animal Crossing appeals to a wider age group. You're not going to see many children who want to play a Souls-type game (if their parents even allow them to), but plenty of them will want to play Animal Crossing.
Most importantly though, sales have no direct correlation with quality. Otherwise, most years, one of the best games is always Call of Duty. What's "fun" for one person is not "fun" for another. That's why it's good we have different devs with different visions so we can have variety. There's no simplistic way to "maximize" or "minimize" fun, it's far too subjective.
ID: h5iqws5That last line is just pulled straight from your ass lol. They’re totally different markets. One game is rated M and therefore inherently limits the market to which it can be sold to, the other is a kid friendly E for everyone game.
Moral obligation? There’s no moral obligation for games to be easy either - game devs don’t just make games because of some bullshit moral compulsion. I have more “fun” playing a game like the Souls series, dying and learning from my mistakes than Animal Crossing. That’s just my taste though.
Just because some games inherently require effort and reward learning and skill, does not make them inferior (or superior) to kid friendly games. Games are games. Some games are about killing monsters and dying and some are about driving cars or a billion other things.
ID: h5iorh6That’s just catering, FromSofts ideology is providing a hard yet rewarding experience, just because they don’t sell ad much as animal crossing doesn’t constitute a change in their games format
ID: h5jbqh2There’s no moral obligation for games to be difficult
Especially a game like Ratchet and Clank. That's not to say that it can't be challenging, but when I play a game like R&C I'm not doing it because I want an in-depth challenge
ID: h5iq014This is why Animal Crossing has sold more copies than an Souls-type game ever will
Or maybe it’s because you’re comparing an M rated game from a 3rd party studio to an E rated game created by one of the companies that popularized video games?
ID: h5irpvnWhen a game is too easy I don't find it fun. It just seems like the devs threw together what they could to ease me through what is almost guaranteed to be a mediocre or worse story, with likely mediocre graphics.
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Games gonna play themselves soon
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Great read and it's good to see the thinking behind accessibility is now (largely) industry wide. Still some way to go but it's promising progress.
I sure hope comments don't devolve into the usual spiel about getting and good. Including accessibility options doesn't curtail a developers vision. The clue is in the name: options. If you don't care for it, then don't use it. Simples.
There's literally no reason why accessibility options can't be part of any game. When even indies can pull it off, then AAA devs have no excuse.
And before people say somehow Ratchet has suffered because of this... just like many family friendly games, Ratchet was never about being difficult. The joy was in the humour of the characters and story, the beauty and immersion of the different planets, and the fun of the combat scenarios with very unusual weapons. What makes 3D Mario games a joy to play isn't the difficulty but the sheer amount of ideas on display, level to level. Same goes for Astro Bot. People have a permanent grin on their face from beginning to end of Astro VR and Playroom not because the main game is difficult but because of all the fun gimmicks, moment to moment.
ID: h5j2ltoI will say that I think Mario Odyssey was very easy to beat, but definitely had more extra challenges that I think Ratchet could have used.
I hope they make a full blown Astro game that's just as magical and fun, but contains a lot of hidden challenges because the platforming is just really good in that game.
ID: h5j9bx3If you played the original Ratchet games they were nowhere near as easy as this game
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I dont know, i dont really like the idea. I skipped thorught both clank and glitch sections in the game cause they were boring, but maybe i lost some good lore. The game it's already on baby mode (even in hard it's a complete joke) so maybe giving a little bit of challenge would've been better. I don't know, the story sucked, the gameplay was flashy but way too easy, only great things were graphic and sound design. There must be a better way to balance it.
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All games should have a easy, normal or hard mode.. leave it to the user to choose,.. now I'm older I just prefer a casual experience, so I go for the games with these options...
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All games should be made how the developer wants to make them. Does the dev want multiple difficulty options in their game? Awesome. Does the dev want only one difficulty setting? Also awesome.
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True, but the multiple options opens the game up to more people, having a easy option on games like Tomb Raider and Assassins Creed for example has got my Mrs playing games, she's completed the later Tomb Raider games and just completed GOT on the PS5... mind you, I think I may have to find some harder games so I can actually get back on my PS5! Lol
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I'm inclined to agree on a certain level, but it's not like developers haven't made stupid-ass decisions before.
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I think that sounds like a reasonable request, but I don’t think it’s feasible.
Designing and balancing a game is always difficult, and it’s easy to find many examples where developers fall short.
Asking for easy/medium/hard that is anything more than increasing/decreasing some sliders on health and damage dramatically increases the difficulty of that balancing act. And for what? People forget that games aren’t just mass produced packaged junk to be consumed. Creating games is a form of art—sure, some places try to pander and exploit fads to capitalize on whatever will make them money, but other people are trying to create something. They have a vision of what that thing is, and that vision may not be compatible with difficulty settings.
FromSoftware, for example, presents a game to players as a whole. The story and objectives are not always easily determined, the difficulty is not adjustable. The game just is, take it or leave it.
And that’s fine! Not every game needs to be for everyone, and we shouldn’t expect them to e catered to us. It’s perfectly fine to encounter a game and, like a food we don’t like, to simply say “No, thank you. This is not for me.”
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And that’s fine! Not every game needs to be for everyone
It's amazing and sad how many people struggle to realize this.
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It really frustrates me how many people don't understand how much work it actually is in order to implement different difficulty levels. I've gotten into discussions with so many people who think "just increase/decrease damage/health" but that's not how it works. Or rather, that's not a satisfying way to have different difficulty levels.
Obviously it's not impossible, especially if the game is designed from the ground up to have multiple difficulty levels. But games without difficulty options (FromSoft is a good example) are generally so finely tuned to their particular difficulty that adding another might require reworking entire systems from the ground up.
Difficulty modes are a feature that requires work, and if a developer has an explicit experience in mind, I don't think they're under any obligation to include different difficulty levels. That being said, more options for more people to enjoy a game is always a good thing and something I'll always welcome
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agreed as difficulty in tactics is useful. In Mass Effect 2 I had a higher difficulty and enemies used more types of attacks. At the same time enemies also were more bullet sponges. Bullet sponge is not difficulty increase imo but that's what is going to be feasible most of the time
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In the age of cross platform tools and tech (as well as AI), accessibility options really isn't a difficult thing to have anymore, and especially for AAA devs.
Once the mindset, tools and expertise is integrated into the development pipeline of a studio, it's in. It's no different to any new component to game dev, like ray tracing or temporal upscaling.
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I got Demon Souls as a gift for Christmas. It’s still In the plastic wrapper. Made it to the second Biome in Returnal and bounced. Currently on my second play through of Rift Apart. I’m 36 and work about 50 hours a week. Do something with zero stress I can just blitz is ideal.
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I really, really understand you. I just wanted to say that DeS is really unforgiving, very specially if you are going in blind for the first playthrough. But my oh my, do I love that game...
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This is why I enjoy this game so much… I’m lousy at puzzles and I play the game to just chill and be entertained.
I appreciate what the devs have done and look forward to their next venture,
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The problem is you can't make an easy platformer more difficult. Insomniac actually took away options for a lot of people by making their game too easy with no real difficulty possible. Hard mode is a joke compared to any other game with a hard mode. And you can't redesign all the platforming bits to not be impossibly easy.
Rift Apart is just too easy and doesn't give enough options for a challenge and that (along with the writing IMO) is its biggest flaw and really hurts it from a replay perspective. It's a 70 dollar game that won't challenge you or give you a reason to return. Even stupid annoying modes like RE8 mercenaries are making an attempt to throw players a bone challenge wise.
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Even with this mindset, the hardest difficulty should still be difficult. Game was far too easy. Beat it twice in about 26 hours, platinum obtained. I will never touch it again. Def glad I never paid for it, let alone full price.
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How did you not pay for it
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Rental?
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It's unfortunate for people who just automatically choose the default difficulty. They end up with a game made for babies.
It's not even a "git gud" criticism. It's just literally an interactive movie if you don't turn that difficulty up a notch or two.
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Some people play games because they enjoy a challenge, but not everybody does. Even back in the old days when all there was to really earn was the high score, a lot of people played games without ever trying to reach the high score. Some people play games without trying to earn any achievements or trophies. They just want to explore a new world, meet some interesting characters, have some fun or relax for a little while. I still see no harm in giving players the choice to make the game easy or make the game hard without judging them for their preferences.
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[deleted]
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While I would frame your criticism a bit differently, I don't disagree as far as the difficulty is concerned. They should have added a higher difficulty level. There were two instances of hard fights for me and they were both in the arena. And I'm not bragging, I'm not a skilled player.
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Maybe it's not your type of game then? It got great reviews and the user response is overwhelmingly positive as well. You should try Returnal if you didn't like this.
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really? what didn’t you like about it?
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I agree somewhat. As i was playing I felt like i was just on autopilot and not really immersed into what i was doing. It was pretty to look at and some of the combat scenarios were fun, but other than that i was just going through the motions to get to the end of the game.
Started playing Sackboy and im having more fun with it than Rift Apart. The music and platforming is more fun to me than anything in Rift Apart.
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Quickly run....don’t stop or turn around. Run before they come for you
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Yeah I was glad I turned the difficulty up. Some boss fights were even almost on the cheap side with some frustrating deaths. But damn would this have been the most boring game of the year if I had chosen Journalist mode.
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The customization based on pacing seems wild
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If you were to jettison the excess cargo, you increase your speed and evade capture!
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The easiest game I've played in recent memory was Outerworlds...I would intentionally be shitty at combat to make it slightly more interesting
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Seconding Bradical here. It will “click”, and also unlocking better weapon traits is a pretty big deal. The most important thing to figure out is when to “rush” a room and when to take a room slow.
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I like a good challenge in a game, but sometimes I want an excellent game that I don’t have to struggle through. I had a smile on my face the entire time I played Rift Apart, it was a good time and I loved that it wasn’t crazy hard. Besides, if I really wanted to I could have put it on hard mode. Great game, loved it so much and I can’t wait for more.
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Playing Rift Apart after clawing my way through the extremely dark world that is Atropos was shocking to me because of how different the games are thematically (ratchet= colorful and cheerful, returnal=dark and creepy).
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Ok
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Older Ratchet and Clank games were harder and I enjoyed that more. I wish the hard difficulties in Rift Apart were at least actually hard y’know?
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Lol, still haven’t used an activity card. Anybody else?
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I'm not a fan of multiple difficulties, myself. I think its cool and that there's a place for it for true gamers, but for me, its just too "gamey". Especially if I'm playing a story-based game and play more than once and change the difficulty. It takes me out of it.
I typically go the normal route if offered and call it a day, with the exception of Alien: Isolation. Fuck that game.
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Is it that good of a game? God damn
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"We no longer think about, like, 'What will make the most elite players feel good about themselves?' And more like, 'What will enable everybody to have the experience they want to have?' Because that's sort of the most important thing to us."
As long as "everybody" includes people who love a challenge then I am all for that shift in perspective. If that's what is important to them then that's how we will get the best game from them!
And maybe I'm misinterpreting it, but "old ideas about game difficulty" felt like they were insinuating that those ideas are obsolete. Which I don't think they are. They're just a different approach. I'm ecstatic to have game like Ratchet and Clank as long as I'm getting games like Bloodborne. Both games are quality games that set out to do different things. Ratchet and Clank wants to give you the freedom to choose how challenged you are. Bloodborne is meant to be a learning experience. "That enemy does that move so next time I should watch out for it." Or " this shortcut means I can avoid those troublesome enemies." These are just some examples.
Imo neither approach is better than the other. I think variety is key when it comes to many things and I'd include game design.
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/om3ya0/the_creators_of_the_playstation_5_hit_ratchet/
They need to add a harder difficulty for NG +
I just replayed all the Ratchet and Clank games. The hardest difficulty just felt like Ratchet 2 and 3.