AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT to Feature up to 15K Cores; Navi 33/7800 XT to be Taped Out in Q4 [Rum

1 : Anonymous2021/07/23 17:08 ID: oq6t62
AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT to Feature up to 15K Cores; Navi 33/7800 XT to be Taped Out in Q4 [Rum
2 : Anonymous2021/07/23 18:06 ID: h69xlvs

Idk if kopite's accurate for amd stuff because he said he ain't got much on radeon, but he's sayin 15360 cores which is 3x 6900xt. That's possible only if the navi31 chiplet (navi33?) has 50% more cores

Might explain the rumors of 7700xt = 1.5x 6900xt, but that sounds a lil too much and optimistic imo. Expect it to cost a bomb if it's got that many cores

ID: h6b2bod

The simplest explanation is that they likely going to be doing the same thing NVIDIA has done with Ampere changing what a core is or at least how it’s counted.

So by the old count you’ll probably have a 7,680 “core” GPU whilst it’s more than the 5120 cores of the 6900XT it’s only a 50% increase in actual core count which fits in line with the node shrink.

If you discount the dual FP32 execution of Ampere it’s quite similar to the change between Turing and Ampere.

ID: h6alj6z

Other leakers suggested that what he means is the WGP/CU structure is going to be different, so there's a possibility that RDNA 3 cores won't be directly comparable to RDNA 2 cores. Somewhat like going from Turing to Ampere.

ID: h6a7606

You are forgetting the possibility of them using 3 5120 core GPU chiplets. Nowhere is it set in stone that they have to stop at 2 chips.

ID: h6a9dn1

There is no way they’d use 3 chiplets on 5nm on a single board. That board would cost easily over 3k

ID: h6b5j5j

It's probably just using a different core count than RDNA2 like Ampere

ID: h69zsjt

TSMC 5nm is supposedly 1.8x more dense than 7nm, so 1.5 more cores per chiplet sounds reasonable.

ID: h6a1uwb

That's the logic density. Gpu's got some l1 and l2 cache (and the huge l3 infinity cache). The sram density increase is just 1.35x. It'd be possible if those chiplets are pure core chiplets but that'd mean that the 7700xt's either bonded to the cache chiplet with advanced packaging (and is gonna cost more) or it'd be a different design with monolithic infinity cache (which can't share chiplets with navi31 and navi32)

ID: h6ath13

A breakdown of how it could work by the numbers :

ID: h6bglgz

Idk if kopite's accurate for amd stuff because he said he ain't got much on radeon, but he's sayin 15360 cores which is 3x 6900xt. That's possible only if the navi31 chiplet (navi33?) has 50% more cores

GPU microarchitectures aren't really that consistent with cores in that fashion. What comprises a core one generation might be significantly different enough in the next generation to not have a meaningful comparison.

3 : Anonymous2021/07/23 21:51 ID: h6aretk

I really hope their ray racing can keep up with nvidia next gen and they don’t just focus on pure raster. Not because I care about RT but if they go two different directions the desire to undercut pricing will be far less direct. I’m excited for next gen AMD.

ID: h6bqy3i

AMD's RT scales with CU count. I suspect that the massive amount cores is partly to scale up RT and to brute force pixel processing. You don't need fancy DLSS if your gpu can do native 8k.

ID: h6dwiae

GPUs can't even do native 4k properly, it will take several generations until we'll have native 8k.

ID: h6dcw6p

Definitely, we will see. I just think nvidia realized AMD is a lot closer then they thought before RDNA2 and with it being known AMD is going MCM that nvidia is going to hammer RT and other “features”. Maybe to the point where it’s not in direct competition which is bad for us consumers.

4 : Anonymous2021/07/23 17:37 ID: h69to9b

An interesting read for sure, though I am a bit skeptical to the amount of compute power for this NAVI 31 as it will require a ridiculous amount of power even if it is based on TSMC N5 node.

There have been rumors before about a "launch" in Q4 2021 which is interesting but I do doubt that, but still interesting for sure.

ID: h6ax1ug

It took 12-14 month from AMD Zen3 tape out to release. I'm not expecting RDNA3 until Q3 2022 using that same metric. Kind of expecting a 7000 series refresh on RDNA2 before then.

ID: h69vps0

A great thing about the mcm architecture's that if the demand for the top sku is lower than expected (either due to power requirements or lack of demand for those performance) the chiplets can be repurposed for other sku lower down the product stack. I'm expecting the tdp to increase for rdna3

It allows amd to go high on the top sku without being locked into the production of a super large chip

ID: h69yltb

The way things are being talked about, we're not really talking about 'chiplets'. It's more full GPU dies just kind of strapped together. I know this is a little bit semantics, but chiplets were notable cuz they offloaded a significant portion of what would normally come on a CPU chip, which helped reduce the size a lot. But these GPU tiles would probably mostly have all the same stuff as normal. In fact, they'd absolutely need to if AMD were gonna be able to use them as individual chips in a more 'normal' high end product.

ID: h6a1rwj

Yea that is a great thing about the mcm architecture. I do as well expect the power usage to increase for the NAVI 3 but for that amount of compute power as mentioned in the article vs the current top sku and that the N5 node from TSMC have at best 30% power reduction over the N7 node. I will remain skeptical until AMD officially announces NAVI 3.

ID: h6a7f3w

as it will require a ridiculous amount of power

Adding more compute on a chip almost always results in increased efficiency when power targets are kept identical. This is because the same wattage gets divided up amongst more cores, lowering the average powe

. Normally you'd just notice a decreased clock speed, but because clocks are intricately tied to voltage, you can lower your voltage a little as well, which saves power, freeing you up to add more cores, or maybe clock a little higher than you previously expected.

It's why the 3990x can get more done (or the same work done with less power) than a 3970x despite having the same tdp and bandwidth available, even in workloads where the bandwidth was already heavily taxed.

All that to say that you won't be seeing "ridiculous" power draw outside of the ordinary for our 350+watt flagships. It does have a chance to be a great overclocker though

ID: h6aaism

This is extremely accurate. The 5800X, 5900X, and 5950X all have identical PPT out the box, but obviously massively massively variable performance.

Another example is mobile GPUs, despite all running at 100W you still see scaling between the 3060, 3070 and 3080.

So probably using more cores allows AMD to have a greater delta between base and boost clocks, where the top SKU might be able to draw up to 400W under full load, and then sustains it until heat becomes a problem.

ID: h6aej73

for a die this large and complicated the problem would be more in memory and production capacity.

if you assume they actually are making a gpu this massive, keeping clocks down to avoid destroying the frequency efficiency curve definitely nets you higher perf/w, but more CUs means more parallelization means higher bandwidth requirements. GDDR6x isn't enough even for current chips and takes a lot of power, and SRAM takes quite a large chunk of space and is only getting a 20% shrink from 7nm->5nm.

So ideally it would be a small IF cache + HBM stacks feeding the chiplets, but now you've got 2x or more wafer space eaten per GPU, a wider and more expensive memory bus, more expensive memory and cutting edge packaging.

Everything about this sounds like enterprise, $10K gpu material rather than consumer parts, though maybe they're looking at the current market and assuming whales will buy them to play in 16k.

ID: h6add1l

like people care about PC

look at the 3090

ID: h69xt7e

There have been rumors before about a "launch" in Q4 2021 which is interesting

No, any such rumor is bunk and AMD/Lisa themselves have stated RDNA3 is next year.

ID: h69zwnx

Have missed that AMD/Lisa had said anything concrete about the launch of NAVI 3. And yes, there have been rumors for a launch in Q4 2021.

5 : Anonymous2021/07/23 19:30 ID: h6a90ka

I hope to prices goes lower

ID: h6ascmg

Spoiler : it won't

ID: h6aopf9

Imagine downvoting someone because they asked for something that benefits all of us.

ID: h6b1qri

He was probably getting downvoted for being unrealistic. Prices aren't going to get better, people have already proven they're willing to pay out the ass to play video games. AMD is going to charge as much as people are willing to pay.

ID: h6bbj4a

Just look at cell phone prices - flagships skyrocketed and have not come down.

As someone that mostly buys upper midrange or lower high-end - I too hope that next gen midrange cards will be reasonably priced.

6 : Anonymous2021/07/24 00:24 ID: h6b9ev1

Does taped out mean when they can begin production ? I don't understand industry lingo

ID: h6bsmja

Tape out means the design is done. There could be errors and bugs in the design that needs fixing. Typically first silicon coming from the foundry is not ready for mass production and you have to go to a couple of iteration before you have silicon ready for release. Usually from tape out to product launch takes 1 year. It can take longer or shorter time depending on how many iteration was needed to fix the bugs.

ID: h6bw9as


7 : Anonymous2021/07/23 21:11 ID: h6amfnx

For the past few years AMD has been focusing on power efficiency and cost efficiency, they didn't have a lot of choice in the matter, there wasn't much room in their portfolio for big, stupid, powerful cards...

...then AMD dropped the 6900XTX, a big, stupid, inefficient halo product, and I love it. Cards like the nvidia Titan and the 6900XTX are pure flex; they aren't going to be great sellers, they're miles away from any kind of sweet spot, they're just corporate big dick energy. (Edit: Maybe "engineering big dick energy" would be a better call, but considering that the 6900XTXs probably aren't super profitable, corporate would have had to give the engineering team the okay, kind of like a pet project. The big dick energy is shared, is what I'm saying.)

Ryzen may have saved Radeon, it's so cool to see AMD throwing punches again. Don't get me wrong, I love my Vega 64, I didn't mind trading a few FPS to vote with my dollars, but it'll be nice not to have to make that trade anymore.

ID: h6b63ta

then AMD dropped the 6900XTX, a big, stupid, inefficient halo product, and I love it.

They never released such a product.

ID: h6b83pr

Here are the specs on the RX 6900 XTX.

But I'll split the hair since the XTX is an OEM GPU and point out that the 6900XT is a halo product too, albeit a little less shiny.

8 : Anonymous2021/07/23 19:37 ID: h6a9y3m

If each RDNA3 SP is faster than an RDNA2 SP then going from just under 6K SP's in the 6900XT to nearly 15K sounds not just that it's going to be a monster but maybe potentially using the chiplet like design ? Otherwise that would be a monolithic die and cost mega $$$.

Speculating as I'm in work and the link won't work.

ID: h6aeo6a

It is MCM, except for N33.

9 : Anonymous2021/07/24 00:36 ID: h6barqm

Curious how many folks here who are geeking the speak be in positive or negative, actually have the card and have run it through benchmarks and rigor...especially in addition to Smart Access Memory and ongoing implementation and improvements with FSR. It's a beast of a card and quite impressive across the board.

The one thing I do agree with is ridiculous pricing to achieve these high gains-- so many things wrong with the market right now, so many variables, but the constant is both Nvidia and AMD know people are willing to pay ridiculous prices across the board. What will market stabilization even look like over the next year-- I have no clue, personally, but it probably won't get better.

10 : Anonymous2021/07/23 17:21 ID: h69rgbo

Holy mother of christ. No shit then ? We just did have a massive jump in performance, two back to back ??

ID: h6axq32

AMD went from releasing a mid-high end gpu to releasing an ultra-high end GPU at 2.5x the cost.

Performance per dollar actually only went up 10% from the 5700xt to 6700xt. 30% performance for 20% more cost. If this doubles performance again expect to pay $2000 msrp at 400w without any chip shortage.

No one applauds Nvidia when they increase the ceiling cost in a new generation, let's not applaud AMD.

ID: h69xgnx

We just did have a massive jump in performance

RDNA2 is a really good jump in performance, but it was perceptually bigger than normal cuz there were no high end RDNA1 GPU's. A 5700XT was just a 251mm² mid range GPU. Basically more of a 480/580 successor than a Vega successor(that AMD got away with selling for nearly double the price...).

The sort of GPU being talked about in the article and kind of rumored elsewhere is a dual GPU tile product. So there's a lot up in the air in exactly how that would work from a product range standpoint. Cuz I seriously doubt this could just be sold as some Navi 21 successor in the same price bracket. Two large 5nm GPU's put together with advanced packaging technology just has to be expensive as fuck. So we might be looking at some new, even higher range of flagship product. Think something like a $2000 graphics card.

ID: h6a0xlr

Think something like a $2000 graphics card.

I know you meant that to sound expensive but...

ID: h6a0ab4

Well, here comes 8k120 lol ! I'll happily keep my 6800XT for 4k60 / 1440p144 for a very long while.

ID: h69val2

There should be yes, regardless of if the specifics of these rumours are right, and that's because we're getting a major node improvement next time, the next cards won't be just a new arch on an existing node.

Every time this happens, we get a large jump in performance.

11 : Anonymous2021/07/23 18:00 ID: h69ws0b

around 1000mm2
$2500 give or take


12 : Anonymous2021/07/23 21:17 ID: h6an54k

I see AMD is getting ready to slap Nvidia yet again. Looking forward to this!

ID: h6be9oh

Dang bro amd paying you again? Can you give me the details on how to be a paid amd shill?

13 : Anonymous2021/07/23 18:53 ID: h6a3z1g

Holy shit

15 : Anonymous2021/07/23 21:37 ID: h6apmsf

Gimme it now.

16 : Anonymous2021/07/24 00:53 ID: h6bcpi5

Soo...will they be available?

17 : Anonymous2021/07/24 01:31 ID: h6bgwrl

THIS is the question. Cool, but can we buy one?

18 : Anonymous2021/07/24 02:16 ID: h6blyvd

More importantly, how many are these so they plan to allocate to their available wafer?

19 : Anonymous2021/07/24 02:52 ID: h6bpsv8

msi 7950 twin frozr was a beast

20 : Anonymous2021/07/24 11:00 ID: h6cqwyv

According to MooresLawIsDead, price increases throughout the whole RDNA3 product stack are planned :/ The top model aims at 2000€ MSRP.

21 : Anonymous2021/07/24 12:03 ID: h6cvkb5

Each chiplet will have 128 CUs x 2 = 256 CUs (x 64 sp=16,384 processors).

22 : Anonymous2021/07/24 23:16 ID: h6f0nes

I can't wait for MCM, assuming they can get the chips working together efficiently. AMD has already proven they can do MCM well in cpus, so there is a lot of hope here.

I am excited for the tech because graphics cards have a lot of their cost tied up in non graphics processor costs. The board, cooler, memory, the power regulation circuitry, etc. Just adding another die to the gpu processor package should allow for a lot more performance for not a lot of additional cost.

The big question is can they make enough chips to actually do MCM in volume. Giving the recent market shortages, i very much have my doubts that is possible. Which means price going up and/or continued shortages. So, the average joe gamer is probably shit out of luck as far as MCM goes....and they are probably shit out of luck in general anyway for the next generation, still lots of pent up demand for cards.

23 : Anonymous2021/07/23 20:07 ID: h6adz68

Probably fake, we would have heared way more if it was laucnhing this year

24 : Anonymous2021/07/23 20:13 ID: h6aerjd

Taping out isn't release lol.

25 : Anonymous2021/07/23 20:15 ID: h6af1il

Isn't taping out the phase where AMD sends the boards to the AIBs to work on their designs? Isn't that something like 2 weeks to a month before the lauch?

26 : Anonymous2021/07/23 19:58 ID: h6acnso

So A Navi 33 card, which may be $350, will beat the 3080? And what Q4? Q4 2022? Q4 2023?

27 : Anonymous2021/07/24 07:12 ID: h6ccak4

No chance it's $350. $500-600 at best.

The MCM line will probably get a new product line (like the fury series) if they take the performance crown

28 : Anonymous2021/07/23 21:28 ID: h6aok7j

some leaks say that we'll see it in Q4 2022, with Zen 4.

29 : Anonymous2021/07/24 09:27 ID: h6cl0aq

More like 1H22, $450

30 : Anonymous2021/07/23 21:51 ID: h6arj1x

I guess it's fine then, if it's Q4 2022.

31 : Anonymous2021/07/24 04:09 ID: h6bxjbr

if AMD go with chiplet design it will either be.

One 192bit die, one 128bit die. This allow AMD to make GPU from 384bit, 256bit, 192bit, 128bit

or just do a single design 128bit die & they use 3 chiplets on the 384bit setup.


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