Lossless Scaling now supports AMD FSR!

1 : Anonymous2021/08/02 19:29 ID: owlwj1
Lossless Scaling now supports AMD FSR!
2 : Anonymous2021/08/02 20:21 ID: h7gx97m

Overwatch at 1440p, native vs 1.3x FSR upscale. Unfortunately it appears Lossless Scaling maxes out the sharpening pass of FSR. Hopefully the sharpening will be configurable in the future.

Also tried it in MS Flight Simulator, but it bugs out and I get the loading screen displayed statically instead of the game when I toggle on scaling.

Edit: Also tested this in Ghost Recon Wildlands. Still the same oversharpening, as expected. Unfortunately performance scaling is very bad in this game:

1440p native (Ultra): 69,49 FPS

1080p FSR 1.33 (Ultra): 79,22 FPS (+14%)

1080p Native (Ultra): 83,59 FPS (+20%)

720p FSR 2.0 (Ultra): 84,61 FPS (+22%)

ID: h7hqq6x

Unfortunately it appears Lossless Scaling maxes out the sharpening pass of FSR.

That's a bit disappointing, this is definitively way too oversharpened and honestly looks kinda ugly. Adding a sharpening slider is a must, or at least tuning it down to around 20 to 40%.

ID: h7h76k4

From the massive amount of sharpening FSR should be left looking at this but holy balls that is a lot of sharpening. I could not handle that.

ID: h7iwkx0

I would say its nice and clean while the right one is blurry af 🙂

ID: h7h524t

So the higher contrast one on the left is FSR, right?

ID: h7hd03s


ID: h7jhdy4

Unfortunately it appears Lossless Scaling maxes out the sharpening pass of FSR.

Lossless scaling already oversharpens the image. That's why it's always been recommended for use for 2d games using pixel art where you can scale to a proper factor. Because with 3d titles, what you're essentially doing with integer scaling is reducing the gaps between 'pixels'. Fine for pixel art, less so for 3d games which aren't so perfectly organized into 2d pixel blocks.

I am not at all surprised that integer scaling + FSR is horrible.

ID: h7jo4wa

I am not at all surprised that integer scaling + FSR is horrible.

As far as I know, integer scaling + FSR is impossible unless they rewrote FSR to replace the upscale part of it (basically lanczos) with nearest neighbor. Lossless Scaling was originally designed to only support integer scaling, aka nearest neighbor with integer numbers, but this is added as an alternative upscaler that couldn't possibly be used alongside nearest neighbor / integer scaling.

ID: h7hce4x

What's the performance gain on Overwatch?

ID: h7itman

With my setup I'm pinned to 400 FPS in the training range either way. So I maxed out Dynamic Reflections and dropped down to 281 FPS looking in a specific direction. Going to Window Mode 1080p I bumped back to 400 FPS. Enabling FSR through Lossless Scaling put me at 329 FPS. Ergo, a 17% uplift in my case.

Obviously this was just done for testing purposes. Would probably be more useful for someone on a lower-end system. 🙂

ID: h7j58h4

Does this work on pirated games? Asking for a friend.

ID: h7j5uub

I would assume they do, but as a model citizen I don’t have any games acquired on the seven seas right now to test on.

ID: h7j8lzs

All it does is stretching out a window, it doesn't care about the content of said window, so yes it does. You could even use it on something that's not a game, like a media player for example.

3 : Anonymous2021/08/03 07:07 ID: h7iyvkj

I used WRC 8 to test this, and it does work

you need to set the game to Windowed mode then, set the game's resolution to what you want the "internal render resolution" to be. In my case, since I was using a 1080p monitor, I set the game to run at 720p, which makes the game appear as a window, smaller than the full desktop resolution then, you set Lossless Scaling to use AMD FSR, and you set the scale factor, where 1.3 is "Ultra Quality", and 2.0 is "Performance" in my case, I used a scale factor 1.5, which is "Quality". This also happens to be exactly what you'd need for a 720p image to "fit" into a 1080p screen precisely, since [720 * 1.5 = 1080] I mentioned the prior point because when I tried to use a scale factor of 1.3, the resulting image would still be smaller than full monitor, with black borders on the edges. This sort of makes sense as far as a 720p image "only" being upscaled 1.3 times to ~936p. I think you'd have to be able to set a custom resolution within the game to make this fit precisely, as in ~830p with a scale factor of 1.3 would come out to 1080p.

Imgur compression kinda sucks for making comparisons, but:

Here's 1080p native:

Here's 720p without any upscaling at all:

Here's 720p using Lossless Scaling to upscale it to 1080p using an FSR scale factor of 1.5:

As far as perfomance goes, my "benchmarking" is very rough and very unscientific, but I will say that, as one might expect, the 1080p native was slowest (approx. 140-150 FPS on average), 720p as-is was fastest-but-ugliest (170-180 FPS average), and 720p-upscaled-with-FSR fell somewhere in between (160-170 FPS average). This is running on an i5-10400 and an RTX 3060Ti.

ID: h7j3uu6

Thanks for posting this, IMO it looks great.

4 : Anonymous2021/08/02 20:17 ID: h7gwpr3

Wait, okay, forgive me for asking the stupid question: Is this, essentially, universal post process FSR?

(I mean universal insofar as compatible games are concerned, but I think Lossless Scaling is compatible with everything.)

This seems like kind of a big fucking deal.

ID: h7h1w3x

It is indeed. It'll scale things like UI and things that aren't supposed to scale but it works

ID: h7h3khd

Performance is almost always a trade-off, unfortunately, but having extra options is always nice, especially when that option is entirely, well, optional.

It's not a perfect solution, but it is a solution, I might finally get to play Horizon Zero Dawn!

ID: h7j4mbv

Can it work on pirated games? Asking for a friend.

5 : Anonymous2021/08/02 23:53 ID: h7hp6iy

That's awesome, I was following another program that does something very similar called Magpie which also supports FSR, but at the moment only if you compile it from the source. I'll see how the Lossless Scaling implementation works and how it compares.

Edit: So far I think it needs a fair bit of work to truly be usable, it didn't work on many of the games I tried and it's way too oversharpened. Nonetheless, being able to use FSR anywhere is still extremely useful, I wonder why AMD couldn't just implement it to the drivers as a form of GPU Scaling similarly to Integer Scaling.

ID: h7l7098

Integrating it into the driver is a great idea - the system could think you have a 1080p monitor while it’s actually 1440p, for example.

Even crazier would be monitors that have FSR built in.

ID: h7lqt7v

Funny that Lossless Scaling basically refused to add filtered upscaling support until Magpie did it for free, plus Magpie is the only program that has independent upscaling that isn't FSR.

So, why? Why has literally every single english speaking programmer NEVER tried or even thought about making an independent upscaler?

Why has literally every single HARDWARE UPSCALER, like for retro upscaling, never supported freesync or resolutions above 1080p?

Seems to me, they've all been colluding to not encroach DLSS, and only started pretending to care after AMD gave them "permission" by open sourcing FSR, when there was NEVER any reason to not use an alternative.

On the Hardware side, mCable already had the perfect upscaling tech to compete with DLSS/FSR, but they've deliberately crippled their upscaler to not work with freesync and high resolutions. To elaborate, freesync/resolution is a freaking display standard, yet mCable pulled a Nvidia by NOT updating their display controllers for YEARS, when a mere controller update would enable freesync. I've emailed them about it, and the PR excuses was laughable. Who wants to bet, all these hardware upscalers will start to allow PC upscaling NOW, only after AMD open sourced FSR, which is completely brainless for any company that could have had a near monopoly for PC upscaling, outside of DLSS. Like WTF is this extreme amount of corrupt collusion going on to not support PC upscaling without being given "permission" from the video card vendors. This is insane.

ReShade is another one of these colluders, but we already know they have deals with Nvidia, so that was obvious. Everyone else though? WTF? Is the market that corrupt?

It's not any different from all the console ports that got PC downgrades, and only just now Epic Games is working on LUMEN that competes against raytracing, not to mention TAAU. Apparently Epic is the only engine company to have the testicular fortitude to bypass the feature scam.

AMD knows what they've been doing though, and since GCN should technically work with all this new RTX alternative tech, they just DROPPED SUPPORT for all older GCN hardware, like Fury and the 8GB 390, which should run this new stuff, but doesn't have any driver optimization because they dropped it.

As for the question of why AMD couldn't implement FSR as GPU scaling, that's another valid question. It would make the UI blurrier, but that's literally the only argument against it. Seems more like an attempt to limit FSR's usefulness than anything else really.


ID: h7m7iew

As for the question of why AMD couldn't implement FSR as GPU scaling, that's another valid question. It would make the UI blurrier, but that's literally the only argument against it. Seems more like an attempt to limit FSR's usefulness than anything else really.

Well, it's not like bilinear filtering (or whatever filtering method they use by default) or integer scaling doesn't affect the UI either, so that was never a real argument to begin with. FSR is just an upscaler, like Bilinear Filtering or Integer Scaling, so there is no reason why there couldn't be a toggle to replace the default scaling method with FSR. I mean, we can already do that with Integer Scaling if we enable GPU Scaling, so why not FSR?

The only argument I can think of for refusing to add FSR as a form of scaling in the drivers, is because this would remove the need to implement it into games, and FSR obviously looks better when it's properly implemented, but still, it's a massive waste to have a super basic spatial upscaler and not take advantage of the biggest advantage it has over TAAU / DLSS / Checkerboard Rendering, which is being able to use it anywhere without the need to be implemented into the game, like we can already do with Proton, Magpie and now Lossless Scaling.

Upscaling from software is not an ideal solution, we should have a high quality hardware upscaler and it's ridiculous how no one has tried to do it before Nvidia. It could be built into the monitor, into the GPU, or even into the HDMI / DP cable like mCable does, and it's frustrating that mCable never tried to make it work for PC gaming. Upscaling from software will always take some GPU resources that are needed for rendering the game, so the benefits are much smaller without dedicated hardware. Hopefully AMD will realize it and add an ASIC for running FSR with little to no overhead, while still allowing it to run from software with some overhead.

ID: h7jtctk

Any significant game you checked it on that it works with?

ID: h7jusmq

For what I remember, it worked with ARK, STALKER Anomaly, A Hat in Time, and probably some more I'm forgetting. Not that I'd call them significant, I just tested some of the games I play.

6 : Anonymous2021/08/02 22:10 ID: h7hby88

So I was curious and so far: lot of black screen games that just don't work with the FSR - I just tried totally random stuff to test including Saints Row 3, Mount Blade II, and Monster Train... none worked (work fine with integer)

And it could really use controllable sharpen levels by the looks of it.

It says in the comments of steam the author is looking at a new capture method for the app to make it better, so here's hoping for an update.

ID: h7jt7uf

Have you got rdr2?

ID: h7kijs4

Yes, I tried it today. It did work for me in vulkan, dunno about DX.

The sharpening as people have said over and over about this app is way too high and needs to be adjustable before this app is really usable for FSR.

But also in particular in RDR2 there's problems with all the built in AA. With TAA you will get a VERY BLURRY ugly result because it's like there's built in depth of field blur or something corny going on with the anti-aliasing. That is rockstar's fault. With FXAA too noisy to use, you'll get artifacts. With MSAA too noisy to use, you'll get loads of artifacts. With no AA too noisy to use. I also saw a lot of screen tearing which is weird because my monitor should have freesync on.

Will it work better if we had control over sharpening? Anyone's guess is as good as mine but so far this is not going to help you do anything but make your image quality shittier in RDR2.

7 : Anonymous2021/08/03 03:57 ID: h7iifid

I've put in a request for a level of sharpening option in their Steam forum. It has lots of bugs right now, but this could end up as a great little app for future gaming.

8 : Anonymous2021/08/02 20:13 ID: h7gw5bl

Looks like FSR is not available in demo

ID: h7hctc7

Yes, Demo is version 1.2.6 (not 1.4+).

9 : Anonymous2021/08/03 07:07 ID: h7iyuzm

tried it out. honestly it looked pretty awful, but I was plying Rdr2 which is notorious for awful TAA. On forza it just blacksreens though. i have faith in it developing but I will refund for now since im not in immediate need of it.

10 : Anonymous2021/08/03 16:49 ID: h7kkfk9

Magpie has FSR too now, is completely free and seems to work with more/all games!

It's only in chinese atm tho!

ID: h7kqnvg

I think it looks pretty good on a 4KTV

PC Monitors are fairly sharp already, the softer TV image lends well to FSR

ID: h7l97u4

Wow, is there an English translation?

ID: h7lh6zf

This user forked it for the previous build, but has not updated it for the new build yet

11 : Anonymous2021/08/03 06:49 ID: h7ixlct

This looks exactly like Magpie? Except it's paid for, it also gained FSR support strangely right after it came to Magpie.

ID: h7j9aim

I think Lossless Scaling came out before Magpie, which was probably inspired by it, but Magpie is far more versatile and powerful. The other upscalers Magpie are very useful as well, for example non pixel art 2D game looks amazing when upscaled with ACNet. And it can also be used with media players, which isn't particularly useful considering how mpv or MPC-HC can also run those shaders, but I have been using it a bit for Youtube, using ACNet for animations or FSRCNNX for live action videos.

ID: h7jbt5t

Yeah, it’s FSR it has a bit of a performance hit meaning it’s not useful in the usual way but it’s free and great for doing comparisons!

ID: h7ki3e6

Magpie has been out since what.. February 2021?

Lossless Scaling was out in December 2018.

Magpie also didn't have FSR yet when LS released it.

It did announce it a while ago tho.

Magpie is superior though.

12 : Anonymous2021/08/03 09:53 ID: h7ja9xc

I did another test:

SnowRunner on 720p, no upscaling:

SnowRunner on 1080 native:

SnowRunner using AMD FSR via Lossless Scaling to upscale a 720p render resolution to 1080p:

This also confirms that you can use Lossless Scaling, as a Steam application, to interact with a game that was launched via the Epic Games Launcher.

ID: h7jajqf

Shame that imgu

compression kills the quality of the screenshots

but the quality gain over native upscaling is undeniable.

what about performance?

ID: h7jk0gk

I did a very rough test right now and I got some very odd results:

163 FPS at 1080p just idling the truck at a static scene when I changed to 720p with no scaling, I was still at 163 FPS. No appreciable gain. when I applyied FSR, FPS went down to about 145 FPS

it's very likely that I'm either doing something wrong, or that I'm bottlenecked somewhere else besides the GPU, or that there's wonkiness with this game and the FSR implementation, since in the previous game I tested, there was a performance uplift from 1080p native to 720p-with-FSR.

ID: h7jxgxw

I would love to see some cas applied on the 720p and native image to really see how much of it is simple sharpening and how much of it is FSR working it's magic.

13 : Anonymous2021/08/03 07:10 ID: h7iz2dy

I'm ready for the fsr in all games button

ID: h7l8kp0

What I’d like to see in all games is dynamic FSR with a configurable fps target, defaulting to monitor refresh rate minus a few fps.

14 : Anonymous2021/08/03 11:28 ID: h7jhizb

I have no idea how this is "supposed" to work but what I did was

Go into windowed mode on my 4k monitor

Set resolution to 3840x2160

Put the lossless scaling to FSR and set the number to 2 for "performance" mode

Enabled the "Force Scale" option and then clicked into game. Then enabled the lossless scaling hotkey.

The screen flickered a few times but then I was full screen in game with a resolution of 1920x1080 while still looking nearly identical to 4k with just some slight staircasing on some textures further away. Not entirely sure if what I'm doing is the right way but it seems to be working for me lol

15 : Anonymous2021/08/03 12:22 ID: h7jmhog

neat for 2d

16 : Anonymous2021/08/03 14:47 ID: h7k3nol

Is possible in warzone?

18 : Anonymous2021/08/03 08:05 ID: h7j2z31

Yesss!!! Finally FSR anywhere without having to resort to using subpar operating systems


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