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Anti-cheat is an arms race that goes on forever, but I often wonder why game developers don't use logic traps in order to catch cheaters. (Btw if anyone knows the answer to this, please let me know, because this solution seems so obvious and effective there HAS to be a good reason for why it's not done.)
I'm defining a logic trap as basically: "Entrapping a player for doing things they shouldn't be able to do"
Example:
Is the player moving 90mph for more than a few seconds (to account for desync)? Instant kick, flag for review
Is the player targeting and shooting the head of a fake PMC that you put underground? Instant kick/ban
Has the value of the player's inventory suddenly shot up 10,000% immediately after spawning, despite not entering the match with anyone? Flag the account for review.
Has the player acquired loot from an impossible to access container that you've placed underground? Instant kick, flag for review.
You don't have to detect cheat software if you just check for player behavior. "What are things that hackers would do that non-hackers would never do" and then start with just flags for those behaviors and review them, once you determine that the false positive frequency is low enough for your criteria, change it to kick/ban.
So, I imagine I'm not the first person to think of this, in fact, I know I'm not. On Rust servers, admins will put stashes in random spots and if someone digs it up (you would have no way to detect them without cheats) you are instantly banned.
In minecraft they'll put fake diamonds underground that are only visible when all sides are covered, meaning you can only see them if you have cheats. If a player digs them up, it sets off an alarm and an admin will observe the player's behavior.
So, since I'm not the first person to think of this, why is this not done for EFT? I imagine there is probably a great reason and I'd be curious to hear it.
edit: please read the top comments before replying to this, I'm tired of getting notifications for the same comment over and over and over again.
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They did it with invisible scavs underground on customs and key cards in locked rooms (without keys to open), if you kill em and loot that = instaban
Now cheaters know about that thing
ID: hakk4b8ID: hakofn6The better option is to put them into lobbies with one another for a while and then ban them so they really can't correlate what for.
ID: hakmdzxCSGO does the same but players bitch about the delay since the hackers get a few days/weeks of going crazy
ID: haksu3uDo they spawn with guns??? I think that explains a glitch I had getting shot through the ground by a scav.
ID: haky1ieThere are some spots where you can fall through the world, could also be that a scav fell that way.
ID: halh7ewJust got to keep changing it a couple of times a week, have a bunch of ideas and keep doing weird shit, even if it only catches 5% of cheaters out it's another step worth taking make it as hard as possible for the bastards.
The cheating has gotten just as bad if not worse since before Battleye, with new games coming out at the end of this year I'm taking a wipe long break.
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I understand that they have done this in a couple of places.. eg. Placing inaccessible loot. I agree they should do more of it, though, and more dynamically.
However, the main issue is that they tell the game clients everything from the start of the match. Apparently even what is in containers (jackets, etc.)
So cheaters with ESP can run to the best loot, avoid unnecessary conflicts, and get out before the plebs who have to play the odds.
I'd say that loot ESP is an even bigger problem than player ESP and aimbots, as it drives the RMT economy and professional cheaters.
ID: hajoc7uI'd say that loot ESP is an even bigger problem than player ESP and aimbots, as it drives the RMT economy and professional cheaters.
This is spot on, and I don’t think many here truly understand how big the ESP issue is.
Think of the hackers that actually care about their account. People that want to play with friends, but don’t want them to know that they hack. People that want to progress and appear good to others. It’s my personal opinion that there are more people like this than your blatant aimbot/speed hacker.
You won’t even see a good ESP hacker if they want to avoid you. Think of all those quiet rounds where no shots were fired. The problem right now is that smart ESP hackers simply won’t be caught currently because they aren’t stupid enough to get themselves reported and BSG’s ESP detection isn’t strong.
ID: hajrlhiTo be fair, if someone wants to not be found, a vpn to put yourself in the EU a second computer and some while pricey not entirely unreasonable hardware.
Theres no anti cheat that they can use that will ever stop ESP due to the simple fact that far too much information is sent to the client.
Rule 1 of security. If someone has physical access to the lock then the lock might as well not exist.
Same is true of computers. Even with newer malware style anticheats that are on 24/7 like valorants iv already seen systems that get around it in a number of ways.
Anti-Cheat is not a solution its a band aid and a road block. Always has been, if you want to stop people from cheating you either have to design the game at a systems level in a manner that makes cheating not possible. Or design the game play it self in a manner where cheating provides so little advantage that its not worth it to developers to spend the time making cheats.
Ideally you have an anti-cheat to make it tedious to develop cheats and design the game systems and game play both in ways that make cheating not worth the time investment.
ID: hajtpe9I'd say that loot ESP is an even bigger problem than player ESP and aimbots, as it drives the RMT economy and professional cheaters.
This is it, chief. Once a way to earn real life income is involved it only drives the production of more cheat makers and cheaters.
ID: hak3rbeMaybe system like Path of Exile has when loot is created on drop and stats on identification would help.
EFT need more things done serverside.
ID: hal54aoEFT need more things done serverside.
That'd require better servers, and make too much sense.
ID: hakfljpI thought loot in containers only spawned when a player searched it, due to the chance to find better loot skill
ID: hal42pzThe chance to find better loot is tied to the value of items currently in the container. At low search level, it just slowly uncovers items from left to right, but higher levels will reveal items that have high rouble/quest values. Think like, you search a backpack filled with bandages and one ledx in the middle, with high search level you'll get the ledx uncovered first and the bandages after. It applies the same to spawned loot tables. The loot in the container shouldn't ever change during a raid as far as what BSG has told us
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It's already in the game.
Green Keycard spawn in labs in cars that you can't open.
Too fast movement = detected ( you teleport back or get kicked / Flagged )
Marked Room spawns under the room.
High tech spawns right under tech rooms.Ever had max perception? Sometimes it shows you loot is nearby and you can spend the entire raid you won't find it. It's because it's right below you but unreachable without cheats.
The inventory value / valueable items are also detected.
Same as stats btw! Insane accuracy and headshot rate? Flagged!
That's why you sometimes see random level 30+ naked running on factory waiting for you to kill them. They aren'T quest runners -they are cheaters tanking their stats.ID: hajglalVery interesting, thank you
ID: hajl06oIs this why sometimes theres a white dot on my screen in marked but NOTHING. That i can loot? This has been bugging me for a while but i do not have max perception skill tho
ID: hajp3omI go in to open marked rooms a lot to find someone missed a single bullet on the ground but it's actually a stack of BS or 7n
ID: hajvjdoif you dont have max percerion its likely bullets that are hard to see or the object has clipped into the ground/table.
ID: hajh69tTheres videos of a new teleport hack working as of 12 hours ago, the too fast movement gets picked up for speed hacks sure but just appearing in place seems to be ignored :/
ID: hajhyhnMost of the time ( probably all but nothing is guaranteed in life ) cheaters and cheat developers straight up lie about their features.
Even if they show it - they would never show what happens afterwards if they get banned. They rather fake out stuff to make it look good and sell better.
Same reason why everyone believes real money trade is safe. Because cheaters brainwash their consumers with "you won't get banned no worries" while as soon as the carry service account gets banned - the connected real money trade accounts ( the buyer ) will get banned as well.
Happened to 2 friends of mine unfortunately. ( or maybe for the better ) -
I remember in a minecraft server I played on (MineZ) sometimes a fake player would sometimes spawn on you for a split second, not even enough time to react to. If you hit him it would flag your account, because if you hit this fake player every time instantly you've got some kind of forcefield auto attacking thing on. Obviously this exact thing would ruin immersion but it makes a case for your underground fake player spawn being auto aimed on.
ID: hak884aSo, they banned one wave of cheaters and then the competent cheat devs implemented plausibility checks (like, did the player just TP to you or did they move to you in a natural way) and the lazy ones just made the force field toggle only and/or added a slight delay?
ID: hakgs48Yeah there's always ways around these cheats.
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So this is the nitty gritty of it, and I'm going to lay down the facts of current level of cheating in this game. I would love to post videos of the things I've seen, but unfortunately that's just not possible for reason.
Cheating is on nearly every map mode, and gets desaturated by two factors....time of day and numbe of players. Things like customs-daytime hours are going to see less cheaters. Interchange night/labs has upwards of almost 60-70% chance of a cheater currently. Below will give an idea how these stats are "determined" Cheating is primarily driven by RMT. Everyone is right here. Most common cheater has a FN 5-7, no gear, pops a SJ6 to head for high tier loot spawns: Key cards, GPUs, specific mechanical keys etc. The average cheater actually AVOIDs other players. Rager's very rarely actively hunt other players with a few exceptions: Highly kitted non streamers - People wearing slicks, using Mk18s, MIA/M4/RSASS, especially with red ionized tubes, shifts etc. This can be profitable, but only as long as the map is devoid of decent loot. What the avg cheater is not fooled by: Inaccessible loot. Inaccessible PMCs. Anything wildly out of the ordinary is usually done on a cheap or cracked account with little regard to what actually occurs to the account. Cheaters that don't want to be manually detected won't be and they will typically scoop loot with the only competition being another esp cheater. And other cheaters, depending on the item, will ramp up their game. I was watching a red key card being raced for as another likely esp loot candidate was racing for it. The person I was watching reached the card first and the other player stopped. The card holder quickly threw the card in his butt. The card holder moving to extract kept an eye on the other player whom still had not moved. As the player got close to Rock Passage extract, the other player teleported in front of and the card holder dc'ed. When he attempted to reconnect he was dead. He received a message afterwards that said "Congrats on vendor trash". Clearly the other player was not aware the key card was going to be sold for 100 bucks. But either way cheaters can also be vindictive to each other and all interaction can literally not be known to any other players on the map.
SO, how do I know the level of cheating prevalence. Through many games, mostly MMO's and selling carries of certain types I know people in the less....reputable world. And while I've dabbled in EFT for shits and giggles, I don't take the game seriously, however I know people that make money hand over fist. I've watched about 100+ raids streamed from an associate and they broke down just how many cheaters they encountered. The player had settings set up in his hack to show: Loot at a threshold of 45k or >, all keys, slicks, hex grids, and other spot items based on prices on flea. ESP with skeletons, typically keeping this at about 200m for skeletons, and 500m for names. He could see their level, their overall K/D and even more importantly their player K/D along with their names of course. The capacity of other features was insane. No Visor, Thermal view, NV view, no recoil, no sway, fast reload etc, along with many other features that he didnt use. He kept his stats on par with an average player, 30-35% survival rate, KD between 3 and 5 overall. He was actually good at shooting and typically kept aim bot off with the exception to cultists and bosses, in which he had a specific key to engage his aim bot. He was level 58, didn't use a spoofer (software to hide hardware components in the event of hardware banning) or any sort of VPN. He stated that with the level of people cheating and getting away with it, it just wasn't worth it to risk another layer to be detected, because while BE is good at detecting spoofers, it can't actually detect cheaters.
So while playing he pointed out "blatant" cheaters, suspected cheaters and everything in between typically based on things like player KD, players going directly to high tier loot, skipping other items. While ledx rooms and known GPU spawn locations are one things, he was more prone to point out people going directly to specific duffles with GPUs, Lions, etc. Any KD > 2.0 that wasn't a well known streamer, or on regular season leader boards was avoided, as they were potentially cheating. He even STREAMED publically and played cautiously, taking his whoopings when definitely out matched, but killing with ESP more than he lost, getting messages about well played, or you almost got me. He looked legit. It's bad right now, and I can't emphasize how bad it is. I was shown just how many undetected solutions there are with some being as low as 40-50 bucks a month.
Take this info for what you will, and if dying to someone with clear advantages isn't for you, wait until there is hopefully something more solid in place for defense. Or just enjoy what you can and enjoy the matches not riddled with cheaters. I read somewhere once, where if you just become ok with "I died, oh well, off to next round" and stopped contemplating whether it was cheating or legit you'll have a better overall experience, because even if it was cheating, even if they were detected right there and banned...your shit is gone.
EDIT: Wanted to edit in something, but I think a big thing about a lot of the proposed flagging/banning comes from accidently hitting a legit player for some reason or another. You always see top news of big time streamer getting banned for good play, the mess of sorting out who needed and who didnt need to be banned, and of course the negative PR behind it.
As for player reporting....this is somewhat laughable. Again streamers and talented players would constantly be under scrutiny. I know people that literally report every player that kills them, and when asked why.....they say "why not"?. So yea I imagine for every 1 true to form report, there are probably 50 reports that are reflex, suspicious, or that guy that thinks every time he lost a gun fight it was to a cheater.
ID: hak72wqIlluminating, thank you.
Yeah there are so many suspicious deaths in this game. And I'm usually quite good at games, so it's weird to keep losing like this.
I'm currently playing on Interchange right now to try and get my scav kills, but i keep dying to people basically teleporting on top of me.
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why is this not done for EFT?
Why assume that it isn't? Certainly it would be in BSG's best interest to disclose as little as possible about how the anticheat works
ID: hak647wNot to mention BSG actually does do it to a degree.
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I wonder if all these big anti-cheat software providers actually buy cheats and reverse-engineer them to see how a given cheat works and then release the ban hammer on users that match the criteria
ID: hajpaglor if employees of such companies build hacks to surpass anticheat software and sell them for money on the side
ID: hajtiy1They do, its not entirely a uncommon thing. Although have seen lawsuits where a cheat dev tried sueing for damages cause of lost income cause of it over "trade secrets"
at the end of the day, both anti-cheats AND cheats are both multi million dollar industries. Hell its not even unheard of for the cheat companies to win these sort of lawsuits. Just as its not unheard of for some cheat devs to get raided cause they are typically doing illegal things along with making cheats.
Buying another companies product with the sole intent to reverse engineer it to cut off their income is something thats typically illegal. Remember making cheats isn't illegal in the slightest and has plenty of legal protections if done right depending on the country.
So shit like this is sketchy if its a big enough operation to fight back in court. Then again i would say over 90% of cheats are made by small indie teams that couldn't do shit and are also typically also breaking some law or another while making their cheats. Entire industry is a fucking shit show on both sides really.
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The best anti-cheat is the community. Stop buying rubles when there are wipes. You are literally pissing away real money. If money is so inconsequential to you, please donate to a charity that could use it.
Second, if you suck at the game, and you pay to get carried… you still suck at the game. You wont ever get better. I am a console player converted. I sucked. Never played a fps with MK before. My first 2 wipes I dont think I filled up a dogtag case from kills. Now on my 4th wipe… I got a few full dogtag cases.
Third and final point. Those who pay for cheats/rubles/whatever you do realize that very cheater could be in the next game and wreck you and all the stuff you just bought only to sell to you again. Which again goes to point 1 about if money is inconsequential.
ID: hak6u3wThe best anti-cheat is the community. Stop buying rubles when there are wipes. You are literally pissing away real money. If money is so inconsequential to you, please donate to a charity that could use it.
This is the most important point, if RMT wasn't a thing, most cheaters would have no drive to actually cheat. Wouldn't stop it completely but decrease it exponentially.
ID: hajs6rsTelling people to stop cheating isn't going to make them stop cheating lol
ID: hak6yirCheating isn't the problem, the cunts funding them are
ID: hak5yboBREAKING: World crime rate falls to record low 0% after Obama tells criminals to "stop breaking the law," social scientists baffled
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Finally a productive thread about cheating, love this idea and have learned a lot from this post thx op
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Tread carefully, these mods might ban you for giving helpful advice
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Easiest way to fix the cheater problem is to just stop playing the game.
It is fucking demoralizing coming to terms that 1/3 of your games will have some form of hack or cheat.
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I like the fake PMC and impossible to access container Idea!
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Esp is the issue, not rage cheats.
I’m far more concerned about the amount of «this player had no possible way of knowing I was here, and only prefired this spot and not the other 3 hard corners before getting to me» type deaths.
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I suggest you (and everyone here) to go and read the discussions they're having on some of the public cheat forums. It's mind boggling. There are hundreds if not thousands of really smart people working on these cheats and can bypass pretty much anything you just said. This isn't just a 13 y/o is a basement running Cheatengine. These are highly skilled people who can probably deal with whatever BSG and BE can throw at them. Tarkov's inherent client-side design is always going to allow smart people to come up with ways to write cheats for it.
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Why not teach an AI to do it? If there's anything an AI can do its identify tiny differences in human behavior, software interaction, and statistical anomalies. Provide an AI with tens of thousands of hours of cheater gameplay, and tens of thousands of hours of legitimate gameplay. Give it everything like stats, movement, loot interaction, gunplay. Test it. If it works with a really high efficacy, use it. If there's a false positive you let the person appeal.
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I still don't understand why everything in this game is client sided when it comes to networking it's litterally worst idea in mp game that you can have ... is trusting the client.
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I can assure you that cheat developers account for every single thing you listed lol.
Your mindset is correct, but you have to realize some of these cheat makers are just as good if not better than those that make anti cheats.
There is too much money in cheating for them to pass up. Private cheats can go for a few hundred dollars a month. Not to mention selling the gea
for real money after cheating.You can buy EOD accounts as cheap as a standard account easily.
It’s a tough industry
ID: hakzvuxSometimes seems like people forget that cheat developers are businesses of talented coders. They're incredibly smart and capable of finding workarounds for any simple anti cheat solution.
Logic gates would catch a subset of cheaters, but the developers and smart cheaters making a bunch of money on rmt would have zero problem avoiding them
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Dont Kick/Ban cheaters... Just move Them to Servers where only cheaters are able to Play BUT dont Tell Them.
ID: hakgcgdOk so they're still fine to ruin the economy though right?
ID: hakpb2xEconomy is already ruined, let’s at least try to save the gameplay.
引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/pckf1r/anticheat_suggestion_logic_traps/
logic bans like this are great, but you also have to "queue" up the bans, and don't instakick.
then you ban a bunch of cheaters all at once, and none of them know exactly what triggered the ban. blizzard used this tactic in WoW