Hot Take: High tier ammo shouldn’t be craftable and should be found in raid only

1 : Anonymous2021/04/08 07:25 ID: mmmgd7

I feel like this would fix ninety percent of the problems with late game meta. This game is just unbearable at this point. Every pmc run is nothing but a glorified cod match where the only thing that matters is who sees who first because everyone, and I mean everyone, is running the best ammo in the game.

Ammo needs to be a whole lot rarer then it is right now, maybe then what armor your wearing would actually matter since everything in the game wouldn't be slicing through it like butter.

.338 AP is the best example I can think of. A one shot through any armor? That would be op as hell...if it didn't cost your nearly 100k a shot. Imagine if m995 went from 2-3k a round to 10k a round? 20 even. Same for 7n1 and m61. Suddenly everyone is going back to lower quality ammo, firefights actually have some meat to them again and your armor makes a big difference.

As it is right now level four armor is basically a wet paper bag and level five is a few wet paper bags stacked on top of each other. Personally I'd like to see a Tarkov where high tier ammo is a rare and well earned tool.

2 : Anonymous2021/04/08 11:23 ID: gtspy91

Lvndmark with 200 mil in cash alone: Your prices bore me

ID: gtt2aae

Hyperrat with 1100M you say

ID: gtt37jh


ID: gttfij8

You don't balance a game around people like landmark

ID: gtt4l3y

I have 60m in cash and stash value over 100...and even that feels silly. Like at this point im just bringing full kits for my lower level buddies every raid. Theyve really fucked up the economy of this game.

ID: gttansm

Lol my friend who has a bictoin farm does the same thing

I try to say no and earn things myself but he literally cannot fit loot from raids in his stash so it just makes sense for him to bring gear and weapons for his boys

It is kinda fucked

ID: gtu0jsd

I’m pretty sure they are doing it on purpose to figure out how to calibrate the economy and figure out how people play when they’re filthy rich all the time. It’s still in beta so it would make sense for them to preemptively see how late game would work for most of the player base

ID: gttanv5

I'm just hoping they let the economy get outta hand as an experiment in what end game would look like or something. Accelerated everyone there to see how it plays out. The general sentiment seems to be that this kinda sucks and my group's done til next wipe unfortunately [I still wanna and do play solo but they're all bored with meta vs meta gameplay understandably]

3 : Anonymous2021/04/08 10:30 ID: gtslefu

You mean I shouldn't be expecting to run into players in a survival environment with multiple drum mags, full juggernaut attire, advanced regenerative medicine, 10 grenades, and at least 800 rounds of armor piercing ammo?

We really are playing CoD aren't we?

ID: gtsqts4

We really are playing CoD aren't we?

CoD with extra steps between rounds you mean

ID: gtss9ta

And less accurate sounds on metal stairs

ID: gtsuv0x

Yeah when I started playing in 0.6 all my friends (who got me to buy Tarkov) quit - and said exactly this.

The end of 0.6 was the "fuckup" wipe, where BSG started a prewipe event that gave everyone unlimited money and maxed traders. It was supposed to be like 3 days long. It lasted 5 weeks. By like week 3 or 4 they reverted some of the changes (first time they started/tried the dynamic market stuff) but it was all done it was just log in one day and there were no traders except fence. This was all before flea too. It really made a lot of people sour because some had stacked icases inside of icases for unlimited space and filled with money/guns/armor and others were just buying between each raid.

It was great for me (at first) because I could learn the game and have fun building guns without worrying about wasting money. But it was definitely COD with more steps, and by the end of it the economy was even more severely fucked than it is currently.

ID: gtstsxa

That's what I don't like about this game. The early levels are fun, but as soon as I have a steady income and can buy everything, I stop playing because that's boring.

ID: gtt6018

I'm starting very late in this wipe, new to the game.

BTC farms are up there as one of the dumbest mechanic i've ever seen.

Literal hyper inflation built into the game.

ID: gtsv2qc

Now that you mention it, the green stim is ludicrous and should not exist.

ID: gtt5286

Lol none of the stims should exist. Certainly not in their current state.

ID: gtugltz

We really are playing CoD aren't we?

Have you watched Landmark and DeadlySlob and Pestily and alike play?

They release videos say the way to survive is play slow if you're solo, then release a video of them soloing a 3 man team as they sprint, bunnyhop and pointfire all over the place flicking shots left and right for "Wwwoooooooo LET'S GOOOOOO! Clip it chat!" bullshit clickbait.

All the streamers are acting like the game is CoD.

Combined with peaker's advantage, it's no wonder they sprint in to rooms and the guys in there don't react at all. It's because the FUCKING WANKSTAIN CODE in this game means he's not even on their screen yet when he's already started firing.

4 : Anonymous2021/04/08 09:52 ID: gtsihpo

I agree with the sentiment but not the solution, only because experienced players will still be able to buy it easily while new players will struggle. I think instead it should be locked behind trader barters that require FiR items, so there's no easy way to buy the ammo, you need to loot items, survive your raids and trade in. You then wouldn't be able to resell the ammo so it would encourage players to use what they find.

ID: gttrt3e

I dont even like trade ins and I actually think this is a good idea. It would train new players on the value of paying attention to items needed and items found in raid and that trading them can be higher value than just selling them and then trying to buy stuff.

5 : Anonymous2021/04/08 13:41 ID: gtt5428

Ammo in this game is fucked. With all the calibers only the first 3 or so bullets are viable. It just doesn't make sense to use anything else because you won't kill anyone. Especially in this state of the game. Where everyone just runs meta shit

ID: gtubq99

Meta phase of this game really is boring. It feels like I'm wasting stash space if I'm not holding onto the meta guns/armors/bullets. Anything else just feels like vendor fodder or scav killing kits only.
I have the most fun on the whole scav to hero kind of meta.

6 : Anonymous2021/04/08 07:55 ID: gtsach7

I agree with this. Shouldnt be purchased from traders either or if so should be very small amount like 60-100 a day.

ID: gtsem9r

Honestly all local limits should be daily instead of per 2 hour restock.

ID: gtsf0nx

Sir Penis Bee, I agree.

ID: gtstb51

What if they take ammo off the flea market? They can mess with trader limits too, but that way the end game isn't just buying the best ammo at any price since you have nearly unlimited money. Then you only have trader refresh and anything you find yourself in raid.

I get that will get people to rush ammo spawns, but that might spread out the looting spots on most maps. Reserve might have the most spawns, but they can always add more to other maps.

ID: gtt534e

Locking things behind trader refresh is fine but the whole out of stock thing is dumb as fuck. Least favourite part of the game.

7 : Anonymous2021/04/08 09:34 ID: gtsh6mv

And then there’s my level 3 ass shooting thick boys 10+ times with marshmallows before they spin around and one shot me

ID: gtspw7h

too relatable, havent unlocked the flea market yet and even if I "outplay" people and get the drop on them usually they just turn around, shrug my shit ammo off and blast me with their drum mag lazers

8 : Anonymous2021/04/08 08:16 ID: gtsbsrj

But then the only people using good ammo are like the people using Mk-18 with AP. Do we really want to divide the wealth classes further?

ID: gtsfozm

I agree, people with bitcoin farms full of gpus are just gonna walk around like they're fighting against scavs. You're only making those that can afford high tier have an easier time. I think it would be better if for certain things, like ammo for example, that when you buy it from the traders it won't be a limited amount for everyone, but per person. Daily amount of ammo I can buy from a trader per day, that way, you won't get the rich guys buying all the traders ammo in a second and then leaving the rest of us buy off of others selling at a very high price

ID: gtsjbdf

Yeah global stocks are fucking idiotic. Just ration the high-tier ammo and make it somewhat expensive like 2000 roubles per shot max. I like the 90 m855a1 limit on skier

ID: gtu4702

I believe the idea is that if high tier ammo for each caliber could only be found in raid, there would be an incredibly reduced supply, which pmc’s would hopefully rather keep in their stash to use later as opposed to selling on the flea. In theory, this would raise the price of high tier ammo on the flea drastically, while at the same time vastly reducing how much of each round is available on the flea. Currently mega chads can just straight up buy 3000 m995 rounds if they really felt like it. Hopefully under the described system in this thread, less chaddy players would be holding their stonks, removing the ability for a pmc to stock up an essentially endless stock of top tier ammo.

Edit: I’m not even sure if this is a good solution for the abundance of high tier ammo in tarkov, I just thought I’d offer a counterpoint

9 : Anonymous2021/04/08 16:37 ID: gttt4zj

lmao if they nerf ammo everyone will just bitch about how much you can tank with top tier armors

“Hot take: something something bullet sponge game something something the division 2 something console something casual”

10 : Anonymous2021/04/08 17:20 ID: gttz84e

But there will always be people who can afford that ammo and shred everyone. I'd much rather have the whole lobby run m995 than one dude running m995 that no one has a chance of shredding.

Also this will literally fix nothing, trust me. Everyone will just go back to the AS VAL, or keep running m855a1 like they already do.

The problem in this game isn't ammo, it's how they keep adding more ammo without doing a god damn armor rework like we have been promised for years now.

11 : Anonymous2021/04/08 11:35 ID: gtsr2ar

There’s always a meta, everyone will just start using .45 RIP instead, 5 shots to unarmored area kills everyone. Also you’re not wrong, people who spot an enemy first are way more likely to win a fight than the other guy. It doesn’t mean it’s completely impossible for him to win the fight. If you’re getting spotted first all the time you’re doing something wrong. I can’t see how this will work as there are a lot of ammos that will pen almost all helmets, people will still cry they keep getting head eyes.

12 : Anonymous2021/04/08 13:04 ID: gtt0p3g

Let's be honest there is no great solution here.

Let's say the devs did this, it doesn't solve anything. Players who play more (and although rightly so) have the better items. The more casual player then complains they have little access to the best ammo because they're constantly dying in raids to people who play more. A game built like tarkov is always going to favour players with more time and therefore money, if you don't like this I'm not sure why you still play.

I think most people are forgetting in other games to close the gap between so called "no lifers" and casuals, microtransactions have been introduced. Nobody wants this.

I've only been playing 3 weeks and from my understanding, I couldn't have joined at a worse time with inflated prices and bit coin farm cost increases but I'm enjoying it. I have had many frustrating moments where I literally have no chance of survival but understand this is how the game works. I'm grinding my way through scav runs, picking my fights and upgrading my equipment.

I understand that more can be done but I wish people would understand finding a perfect balance is near impossible for a game like this.

Oh, and if you're getting seen first you should be dead shouldn't you? That's literally what this game is about, or at least tries to be?

13 : Anonymous2021/04/08 16:26 ID: gttrjqq

How would this affect anyone with 100+mil inventory, not even talking about 100+ mil in cash?

14 : Anonymous2021/04/08 07:43 ID: gts9lb9

Hot take, that would make all the no lifers and streamers have a massive advantage over everyone else in the game.

ID: gts9rd2

Hot take, they always will because if effort should be rewarded, those who put in more effort get rewarded more.

15 : Anonymous2021/04/08 08:25 ID: gtscelu

The whole problem is even without top tier ammo, some calibers are good enough - m855a1, m62, m80. For this to work, anything but very basic ammo should be only craftablefir with various degree of availability (like BT being very common in raids). And this goes for guns themselves - decently modded M4 with m885a1 will still be much better than decently modded 5.45 AK with BT. Unless, BSG implement "scarce" economy, they were talking so much about years ago, nothing really will change.

16 : Anonymous2021/04/08 07:44 ID: gts9me2

Thing is, you're just moving the floor. If BIS ammo/armour becomes near unobtainable without Facebook money you're just moving what is considered high tier. Instead of the game playing out with slicks taking on 995/M61 whatever you deem high tier. You have level 4 armor taking out 7.62x39 PS etc... You get the picture. Which of course is dealt with adequately by the lower tier rounds. If you decide just to upp the ammo, then you're looking at only the thiccest of wallets running ammo that can deal with the upper tier armors, resulting in probably just people relying even more of the heavier calibers 7.62x51/54 etc... than is currently.

People daydream of some hypothetical scenario where people will keep a couple "good ammo" bullets squirreled away instead of just switching into whatever becomes the new most viable thing to run.

ID: gtse5r6

Instead of the game playing out with slicks taking on 995/M61 whatever you deem high tier.

And then everyone would have headroom to actually upgrade their stuff instead of running raid after raid with BIS stuff?

ID: gtsniwu

It's not just the floor moving. It's significantly increasing TTK and the importance of landing headshots. It also adds the conscious choice of going all out for a couple of raids, versus being able to do it *every* raid.

17 : Anonymous2021/04/08 12:13 ID: gtsuzo5

I don't know what fucking game you're playing, but I rarely even see people running above lvl5, meta guns or anything like that. Most people I see run a korund and decent ammo like M855A1.

ID: gtue0sg

I had this discussion with my friends. This is my first wipe while they have played since 2018. They told me to ignore Reddit as they generally grossly over exaggerate problems. If you listen to Reddit, every player has a slick with meta M4, exfil camper at every extract and desync was there every fight. I just come here to see interesting stuff.

The problem is there is so much whining that is exaggerated that I can no longer see what is an actual problem or if it’s just Reddit being Reddit

18 : Anonymous2021/04/08 16:18 ID: gttqbpx

This is an extremely cold take. You hear Pestily say this on stream like every other day.

I’m not sure if this would actually be good. Nolifers and streamers will always have money to buy good ammo because they play all day. This would really only screw over casual players, which means BSG will likely do it, as they love screwing over casual players.

Good ammo being relatively plentiful is the only meaningful equalizer in this game. Someone who only plays a few hours a week having access to BS or 855A1 means that even heavily geared chads have to always be expecting anyone to be able to ruin their raid. That goes away if you make it so casual players can really only access garbage like 5.54 PP ammo.

Until BSG changes how the economy works, making good ammo more rare just makes an already very inaccessible game less accessible, which it doesn’t really need to be.

The only solution I can fathom (with about 2 minutes of thought on the matter) is if they implement some weird mechanic where as soon as you start running a bitcoin farm, your hideout starts getting targeted by thieves (which would also make security useful). It would be incredibly annoying, but it would help balance some of the rich/poor dynamic in the game.

19 : Anonymous2021/04/08 09:38 ID: gtshgpb

" Personally I'd like to see a Tarkov where high tier ammo is a rare and well earned tool. "

Earned because someone could play more than someone else? I would not struggle to have top ammo anymore than I do right now (I play 4-8 hours a day and have a pretty sizable group of friends who are all pretty decent at the game). All this would do would be to hurt casuals. They would literally never stand a chance vs anyone geared. People that play alot right now and have alot of in game currency would continue to play as they do now. They would just change their priority of what to loot and put into there secured container.

20 : Anonymous2021/04/08 09:44 ID: gtshy16

I disagree with this for the most part. As of now, a lot of high tier ammo is already ludicrously expensive. For example, let’s say you run an m4 with 3 drums and have one extra stack for packing, so 60 x 4 = 240 rounds. At 3k a bullet for m995, that’s 720k just for ammo. That’s insane. Not to mention how fast you’re going to be dumping that ammo out of an hk or m4. I’ve been struggling to run most guns because I don’t want to fork over amounts of money equal to how much I’ve already spent on my entire kit just for some ammo. Right now, the only reasonable ammo for me to run that I have decent access to is m62 because I get it cheap(ish) off of peacekeeper, m855a1 when it’s in stock for the first 5 minutes of every trader reset, 7.62x39 BP because it’s not too expensive and the guns that use it don’t burn through ammo in 2 seconds, or igolnik for the same reason as BP. I haven’t even bothered touching high tier ammos like m995 or m61 because it’s just too damn expensive.

21 : Anonymous2021/04/08 11:06 ID: gtsoe4j

It’s bullshit. You just farmed enough to be in the same skill group as other players who are also fully equipped. I’m LV 30 and there are still plenty of people running average gear. When you are LV 69 and you have half billion on account it doesn’t matter if the round costs 10k. You simply farmed enough to not care and play every game fully equipped. That’s the point of farming 1000s of hours to be able to do that. And no I don’t want to be okay the game 5000hours to be able to afford top tier ammo.

22 : Anonymous2021/04/08 13:09 ID: gtt1c1e

No. This is not thought through, its just something people say because streamers think its nice. Be honest.

People who say armor doesn't do anything are people who want to survive 20 shots and run around like nothing. You can already survive 12 shots of BT ammo UN-armored if you shoot around thorax and head. Thats cod like. Not what your suggesting. Now imagine everyone forced to use BT and forced to pen lvl 5-6 armor. Like do people not think about this???

People already rarely run super high teir ammo. You guys act like 99% of players have m995 because you watch someone's stream or you die to it twice. The truth is making high teir ammo unavailable is just a bad idea. The gqme will be a bullet sponge fest, and the only people who will be rewarded are people like streamers who have 900m in their account and can buy whatever. YOU, even as a hard-core player will get cucked. This game doesn't need more randomness.

" oh wow u can 2 tap the thorax". Like oh yeah buddy how many times do you do that? 99% of fights are 2 pepeges fighting each other because this game doesn't understand what skill is. Two people running and hip firing, or just walking and shooting causing the aim to go everywhere. We should strive for skill, not for useless concepts like ammo. Everybody NEEDS to have access to the highest teir of ammo, making the entire concept flawed, if not the balance is just cucked. Like be honest how many times do you die to like a unmodded AK with BT? Or a 9mm AP 6.3. Because people using that get fucked by better ammo. But can't buy it because of cost or out of stock. Like from a skill and game play perspective he shouldn't loose because of his gear. And people who say u can get one tapped by a pistol. Again, happens 1 out of 100 times.


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