Will AMD release a Zen 3 V-Cache version of the 5800x?

1 : Anonymous2021/11/15 02:45 ID: qu65hv

From my research, Ive only heard about AMD talking about Zen 3 V-Cache only on the 5900x and 5950x, but for the CPU cooler I have those processors would be too much for the
Alpenföhn BLACK RIDGE low profile cooler I use in my PC.

Has anyone heard of any rumors of V-Cache coming to midtier processors?

2 : Anonymous2021/11/15 03:44 ID: hkoffdu

I heard they might do the XT route for the lower tier processors to keep selling prices higher.

Also as a fellow blackridge owner, 5800x is hot as or hotter than a 5900x so was wondering if you currently have a 5800x on a blackridge?

ID: hkr9fpu

I heard they might do the XT route for the lower tier processors to keep selling prices higher.

100-200 MHz is not going to make the 5800X significantly outperform the 12600k, nor catch up to the 12700k.

AMD have to make 3D cache versions of all their CPUs if they don't want to lower prices.

Unless they're hoping Intel will have too little supply, and people will buy Ryzen5000 at current pricing due to no other choice.

3 : Anonymous2021/11/15 02:47 ID: hko882m

My understanding is that they were doing v cache of 5800x, 5900x, and 5950x

ID: hkoz79y

considering where the 12600k currently sits.... chances are amd's thinking "yeah, maybe we should do that one too" (looking at 5600x)

ID: hkpiudt

Agreed, They do need an answer to it . AMD had all last year to address the cheaper 5600 non x segment of the market. Now Intel have better options at better prices in this area, so I can a reduction for the 5600x then I can see a new 5600 Vcache & 5600x Vcache, plus all the higher models.

ID: hkq0edt

Wouldn't be opposed to it. I'm expecting yields of the cache to be +95%

ID: hkq8qdw

Considering the 5600X and 5900X pricing on AMDs website, it would be more profitable for AMD to sell two 5600's than a single 5900. So if they have this v cache on a 2x6core product, seems kinda silly to not offer a 1x6core product as well.

ID: hkqfbxf


le sigh... AMD may be going to be all in on the FasTeST gAmINg cPU marketing game, if performance allows it, efficiency be damned. I hope it won't happen, but I expect it.

ID: hkrgxmw

Implying Red Dead Redemption 2 at 720p with a RTX 3090 isn't the only relevant metric for gaming CPUs, you filthy heretic.

ID: hkrgho4

V-cache is not very interesting outside of gaming, so obviously this is the direction the marketing is gonna go. There are plenty of gamers who would have $450 for an AM4 part that is the fastest gaming chip.

4 : Anonymous2021/11/15 03:19 ID: hkocbxt

The 5800X is actually harder to cool.

ID: hkpihj6

Maybe with process refinement or even a node shrink to 6nm, it will be tamed a bit.

ID: hkpv1y5

From what I've read, the 5800x runs hot because 7nm is so dense. The die is small, all that heat is just concentrated.

It might just get hotter with node shrink & AMD spend power improvements on performance.

ID: hkofyke

Especially with PBO on. Tried Usmus's CTR 2.1 and got 60c max with an NH-D15 and only a slight performance decrease. Only option when looking at power consumption (85w vs 130w).

ID: hkpfap9

im planning to get a 5800x soon, can you point me whether I go the curve optimizer route or the CTR one. I currently have a 3100 oc'd using CTR 1.1, well the new CTR is very different which utilizes pbo. (am too lazy to read all the shit again since I did that before...)

5 : Anonymous2021/11/15 15:49 ID: hkqbvie

I would expect them to release the 2-CCD SKUs first, tbh, as they will see the most benefit and bring the best prices. 5800X-3D would depend on availability and demand. It might be pretty rare.

6 : Anonymous2021/11/15 03:12 ID: hkobden

5800x is very unlikely and no leaks or rumors have suggested it. 3D V-cache relies on a new packaging process offered by TSMC, its very low volume and adds quite a bit of cost between the extra cache and the packaging process.

ID: hkordqm

TBF no rumor has suggested anything about any V-cache model. Only Su's comments from last summer are anything to go by and they are vague as to what they refer to. The extra cache should cost something like ~$20 + opportunity cost for AMD.

ID: hkp06f9

The opportunity cost isn't exactly huge either because AMD's main shortage now is in substrates, not N7 silicon itself. This can be seen by the fact that Ryzen can be quite easily found in stock world-wide and it's been that way for the last half a year whereas Milan is seeing 22+ week lead times despite being the higher margin product.

While V-Cache does make use of more N7 silicon, it doesn't require any more substrate than regular Zen 3.

ID: hkotd1v

No leaks or rumours have suggested what the V-Cache SKU list will look like at all.

Not any credible ones, anyway.

ID: hkoji6s

Almost certain you are wrong it's literally adding vcache to an already established chip heyve eleven got the Z height exactly the same..

ID: hkopk69

Extra cache requires extra silicon, roughly doubling the amount required for a CCD. You pay by the wafer. It will cost more.

TSVs are required to bond to the extra die which requires some retooling (perhaps why the B2 stepping was taped out). We don’t know how complex that process is either since AMD did just give a dumbed down graphic of how it works.

Same Z-depth requires ‘sanding’ down the die then adding supporting silicon to the sides, yet another step or two in the manufacturing process.

So yes it will be more expensive as both more silicon is required and more steps are required during manufacturing, increasing the time spent making a chiplet.

7 : Anonymous2021/11/15 03:05 ID: hkoahuj

I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up in Spring 2022 as a stepping stone before Zen 4 in November 2022.

8 : Anonymous2021/11/15 08:38 ID: hkp6hgo

It's purely a marketing decision at this point. I think that with Alder Lake on the market AMD stands to gain more from having an 8 core Zen 3D chip than not. My bet is that we'll see a full family.

ID: hkpiphh

This. If v-cache is easy enough for AMD to release 5000XT variants of their current lineup, it will keep them on par with Alder Lake and not rush Zen 4 to the market.

9 : Anonymous2021/11/15 19:02 ID: hkr4vqg

Who knows. I don't think it would help the 5600x much, honestly. V-Cache benefits bandwidth bottlenecks, and I expect those to be more benefitting to the 5800x, 5900x, 5950x. So to answer you question: maybe, probably.

10 : Anonymous2021/11/15 15:15 ID: hkq70n9

I am almost sure they will, as 5800x is largely a 5900x with disabled cores.

ID: hkqpvk3

A 5800x is not a 5900x with disabled cores. 5800x is only 1 ccd, 1ccx. 5900x has 2 ccds and 2ccxs.


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