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Final Fantasy 7 Remake Developer Says The Last Of Us Part 2 Is A Benchmark For Video Game Diversity
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Also for animations, performance capture, level design, stealth-action combat, etc.
ID: h4elv1kID: h4es81yPlaying through Part II for the second time. It’s really neat to see how where you shoot/stab someone impacts the kill animations. For example if they’re next to a wall, you’ll shove them up against the wall, if they’re at a table then you pin them down. Same goes for enemies attacking you.
ID: h4ev8jhI have to disagree with the stealth-action combat part, I think the animations were the best in video game history but the mechanics where a bit too plain imo. I want them to go more in-depth like wire traps, ropes in combat, more hiding underneath and inside places like boxes and lockers, more enemy types like night-vision goggles, more dogs etc
ID: h4ex0rlThat's some part3 stuff right there ..
Like environmental traps and stuff? Yeah I'm sure ND will do something like that. They wont just give us a part3 with the exact same things.
ID: h4ewp6vlevel design, stealth-action combat
I dont know how TLOU2 is a benchmark for these
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I'm all for diversity as long as its well written. TLOU2 actually had well written characters to go along with that diversity. If we're getting Disney's brand of checking boxes then whats the point?
ID: h4ef4qpDiversity is one of those things where when it’s done right, you barely even notice it. Like how Ellie is into girls, it wasn’t this huge deal where it’s like LOOK LOOK SHE’S LESBIAN.
The most uncomfortable part I had in the whole game was actually Abby getting railed by a dude. It was just weird to watch even if it made sense in the story.
EDIT: Totally unrelated but if you guys want a good story that has a very nuanced and complicated relationship between 2 men then you should watch Hannibal on Netflix
ID: h4efe9aYou can’t handle some straight guy on girl action, bruh?
ID: h4elddbI mean, you say that and yet Gamers™ blew their fucking lid over Left Behind.
The fact is it doesn't matter how well written, or subtle it is, they will complain about us even existing in a game.
ID: h4ess5gThe Abby scene made me wince because I know what Abby has been doing the entire day and sex is the last thing she should be doing. Probably about 5 showers needed before even getting near another person. Same with Ellie and Dinas scene tbf but Abby had ran through some nearly shit at that point.
ID: h4eu9xzAn opportunity to write about how TLOU2 functions as a coming out story? Yes please.
Ellie's immunity, and her relationship to it through Joel, is super analogous to her sexuality. You could very easily view the entire game through her sexuality.
We see in the flashbacks that Joel assumed Ellie to be straight up until the night she and Dina first kiss. Ellie is "out" with her immunity to Joel, Tommy, and Maria exclusively - and Joel's advice is to hide it. Cover it up. Ignore it. Joel asks her to put on her gas mask, even when no one is looking, against her wishes. From his perspective, that's completely sensible. He's trying to protect her - and everyone else has to wear a mask, so what's the big deal? But the entire rift in their relationship comes because Joel refuses to see her immunity as something makes her different.
So what is Ellie left to conclude about how Joel would feel about her queerness? Would he tell her to hide it? To try... not... being gay? It wouldn't be out of any discomfort on his part - just a loving father looking out for his daughter's best interest. Ellie's not at all eager to face that, again. When Seth attacks Ellie and Dina - Joel steps in, but Ellie affirms that she can take care of herself. It's not his job to worry about how the world will treat her because of who she is.
On the porch, though, Joel agrees that Ellie had Seth under control. He agrees to stop harassing Jessie about her patrols. Then he affirms how lucky Dina would be to have Ellie as a girlfriend. For the first time, he's extending Ellie the trust she needs, AND accepting the pain that would befall him should she ever come to harm. The one thing he won't give her - he wouldn't take back the choice he made to save her. That choice gave her the childhood in Jackson that she always deserved. Ellie reflects on that night over a year later, and realizes she owes him the same trust. That she was a worthy daughter - even in her absence from him. That she was worth saving, even after everything she'd done, even knowing who she is. And what she does next, secure in all that she is, is completely up to her.
This is the opposite of "Disney diversity". It's neither token, nor in your face. It's wrapped cleverly into the fiction in a way that feels respectful, relevant, and real. Then it goes the extra mile to say something about all of that. TLOU2 rings a pretty strong endorsement for why and how we should love and support people for being who they are. Underneath the 'bigot sandwiches' is an exploration for why people discriminate in the first place, and the unspoken struggle of being different. Doing diversity well in games is not as easy as gende
swapping interchangeable characters, and though not all stories need to go as far as TLOU2, I hope the lesson doesn't start and stop with casting choices.ID: h4efcwqWhat's wrong with checking boxes? Everything besides stereotypes (negative/positive) are welcome representation. Seeing yourself represented in any form of media is important to developing one's idea of self. Diversity isn't just there for being "progressive" and making money. It's important for identity and self worth.
ID: h4epj57I see the kind they are speaking of. For example, In Avengers: Endgame, the sweeping shot with all of the women in their franchise was explicit pandering, almost everyone I know hated it.
ID: h4ei9zjThe example I point out a lot is at the end of Rise of Skywalker, during the victory celebration, the scene randomly cuts to two unnamed women kissing for a moment then gets back to other celebration shots.
To me that just feels like tokenism and trying to fill requirements or quotas. It feels artificial and stands out.
ID: h4epydtThe issue is checking boxes for the sake of checking boxes can sometimes lead to disjointed or lazy story writing.
ID: h4efroxfr hollywood and gaming industry have always been checking boxes when it comes to negative representation of Russians, Muslims, homosexuals, Africans and so on for decades but apparently if they check boxes in terms of being positive then it’s a no no.
ID: h4eixexif your identity and self worth are so fragile you need entertainment media to represent you that's a brittle spirit
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Idk about diversity, I just like the game, that's all I know
ID: h4ep6gtIt's a good game
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I always like to believe that if the first last of us had never been released we would've never gotten games like God of War, Red dead redemption 2 and many other games with deep emotional themes.
I could be wrong of course but there's no denying the impact the first game had on the industry. And it's cool seeing that the second is influencing developers all over the world as well.
ID: h4enj2cYou should play Silent Hill 2.
ID: h4egqrrI agree, add uncharted 4 to that list, it's very different in terms of story telling from first 3 uncharted, it has way more emotional impact and personal story.....first TLOU initiated the trend of super serious story telling with very realistic character animations and cutscenes.....similar to how Resi 4 initiated the 3rd person over the shoulder camera angle trend
ID: h4egfx5I could be wrong of course
That's the most correct part of this statement.
ID: h4ejmdaI can back up my claim for god of war at least, because Cory himself said the game was heavily inspired by the last of us. The same way the second part (or 5th) will be inspired by The last of us part 2 according to one of the game designers at Santa Monica.
Red dead 2 was just a guess because previous Rockstar games were not as emotional as this one, Not even the first red dead.
ID: h4et2beOh wow, I had no idea the last of us invented emotional story telling. Incredible.
ID: h4etkziThat's not really what I meant. There have been plenty of games that have made me shed tears before The last of us. All i meant was that it had never been done with such movie like production value, acting and scale before in an action adventure game.
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Diversity has always been in video games, difference is it was easy to miss because it wasn't mentioned every 10 minutes just to make sure you didn't forget x is y, and it was normally in throwaway dialogue where you had to put 2 and 2 together.
TLOU had two gay characters (Ellie and Bill) but they didn't have to talk about it as it wasn't really detrimental to the story or the game itself... in fact it wasn't even a big vocal point of the game during its release either.
ID: h4enhgrI do not even remember Bill! Guess it is time to replay the original!
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TLOU 3 will be so diverse, characters will announce their pronouns when introducing themselves.
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TLOU2 and diversity in vidya gaems combined? Hold on to your horses y’all
ID: h4ep4niWhat?
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No thanks
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You can have gay sex in Mass effect and that series is like 10 years old.
This means nothing. Writer is probably some tool who didn't start playing video games until they became mainstream.
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Can they also learn about good writing and non-cringe dialogue from naughty dog ?
ID: h4eetutNo, cringey dialogue with lots of random moans and grunts is the heart of anime.lol
ID: h4ei8mli’m not a fan of anime, so i was taken aback playing through the remake of ffvii. i’m surprise none of them shit themselves with all the grunting and moaning they were doing.
ID: h4eg8asNah, that's the charm of FF type games.....not every game has to have ND or Rockstar levels of writing
ID: h4eghusSo bad writing is actually part of the charm? y’all are weird but ok
ID: h4einu0most of it is due to cultural nuances (Japanese anime) getting lost in translation
After some familiarity, you (sort of) get used to them. I personally adore them now coz I prefer variety.
ID: h4ex811Jesse: “What you got there?”
Ellie: “Bigot Sandwiches”
Ah yes, Naughty Dog’s famous non-cringe dialogue
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Trash, I’m so sick of all this being Shoved Down my throat.
ID: h4ey6mr*Legit one mention of diversity and a lgbtq character" wHy dO aLl oF tHeSe DaMn lEfTisTs HaVe tO sHoVe ThEiR pOlItIcAl aGeNdA dOwN mY tHrOaT?
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F
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it sounds like they want to change the FF7 story. lol what if they make tifa and aerith lesbians?
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I actually think diversity, in conjunction with part 1, is where this series turns up short. It has representation, but it's rather shallow.
I won't speak about the Queer characters(which I know that's what the article is focusing on), but the prominent Black/PoC ones were a kinda mishandled.
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引用元:https://www.reddit.com/r/PS5/comments/ofreuq/final_fantasy_7_remake_developer_says_the_last_of/
I used to see a lot how Naughty Dog's gameplay in TLOUII was dated, but I never got that. Yes it might be akin to a bygone generation of gaming, but it's also perfected to the point that no other developer can touch it's level of execution. While everyone else is trying to modernize their gameplay as much as possible to keep up with the trends, ND believed in their systems and said they were going to improve what they has as much as possible.